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Terror Raids Defendants Being Railroaded

in

UPDATE: After being contacted by NZ Crown Law Office, the ((i))ndymedia editorial collective has decided to edit this article slightly and hide some comments, as was done by Scoop a few days ago. This does not mean that we agree with the Crown that ((i))ndymedia was in breach of publishing the October 15th Solidarity media release.

The 18 defendants in the so-called "Terror Raids" trial are being railroaded. "We are being railroaded by the crown and judiciary and there is no way that we can get a fair trial. This is an egregious miscarriage of justice," says Valerie Morse, defendant in the case.

"The Crown has dragged out the case at every opportunity in order to wear down the defendants and force them into long and expensive legal battles in the hope that the public will forget about the case and ultimately to force the defendants to plead guilty to end this nightmare," said Ms Morse,

Links: October 15th Solidarity | The day the raids came (Book)

"We are continually having to fight for our most basic rights in this case."

"The Government is doing everything in their power to deny us a trial by jury. A jury would quickly see through the police spin that has surrounded this case, which is why the crown wants a judge alone to hear the case," said Ms Morse.

The highest lawyer in this country, Solicitor-General David Collins, said in November 2007 that there was no case under the Terrorism Suppression Act, yet more than three years later the crown continues to relentlessly pursue Tame Iti and 17 other activists in an unabashed crushing of political dissent and aspirations for tino rangatiratanga.

The Terror Raids trial follows a long history of political and racial discrimination in New Zealand's court system. When the people of Parihaka pulled out survey pegs to stop the theft of their land, they were imprisoned indefinitely under the Maori Prisoners Trials Act 1879 so that the theft could continue unhindered. In 1916, following the armed invasion of the Tuhoe community at Maungapohatu, Rua Kenana was forced to sell his land and cattle in order to pay for his court defence.

"The changes to the criminal justice system are criminal", said Ms Morse.

"It was part 1 of the Criminal Procedures Bill, passed under the previous Labour government in 2007 that gave the Crown the right to apply for trial by judge alone.

"Previously only a defendant could request this. Now the government is intent on further removing the right to a jury, the right to silence, the right against self-incrimination, and has just taken away the right to vote for all prisoners. This is not a democracy, let us not delude ourselves any longer, " Ms Morse said.

The October 15th Solidarity group reiterates its demand that these charges must be dropped.

ENDS

Notes:
1.18 people are facing charges under the Arms Act. Five of the defendants also face a ridiculous charge for 'participation in an organised criminal group'.

2.Of the 18 defendants, 13 are Maori. They whakapapa to several iwi: Tuhoe, Taranaki, Maniapoto, Te Ati Awa, Ngapuhi and others.

3.The raids took place on 15th October 2007 and the defendants spent up to one month in jail.

4.A book has recently been published by Rebel Press with the stories by people (including some of the defendants) affected by the raids. It can be downloaded for free as a PDF at http://www.rebelpress.org.nz/publications/day-raids-came

5.Visit www.October15thSolidarity.info for information. You can also email info@october15thsolidarity.info to get in touch with the October 15th Solidarity group.

Comments

"terror" trials

No doubt about it, we are setting up the institutional framework for a Police state.

 

As one interesting footnote the European Court has just directed the UK to give the right of vote back to prisoners as a basic civil right.

Terror trials

It is the 'legal' system that is to blame for this tyranny.  We need to have an organised en masse demonstration where the people oppose the legal system.

"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal."
- Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Parallel society

Acknowledgement of parallel societies whose members of that parallel society, where the rules are that issues get addressed within that society and not the incredibly deceptive, ill intentioned law society.  The courts of NZ (corporation) have no true jurisdiction over people of the land.  It is tyranny when people are coerced into forced consent.  That is not consent at all.  It seems that a revolution of the people is the most direct way to force the courts to do what is right.  Politicians and members of the law society in reality should be quaking in their boots for the abuse they have been dealing out for far too long just as Charles and Camilla did this week.

Just remember if the 18

Just remember if the 18 innocent people go free then the government and the police will look like idiots. All I want for Xmas is a Revolution to get rid of this rotten system! Love and Anarchy to all.

With an attitude like that

With an attitude like that its likely they are guilty of being terrorists, at least terrorists from the perspective of this current government. When someone threatens your lively hood you tend to not look kindly upon them so don't be outraged at something you would do in their position

Yes we need a nationwide mass

Yes we need a nationwide mass protest against this tyranny and the present legal system.  We must push for an alternative method of justice because this present system is failing at every level.

I hope Indymedia has good

I hope Indymedia has good lawyers.

I'd support a national day of

I'd support a national day of action.

 AT LEAST DRAGGING OUT THE

 AT LEAST DRAGGING OUT THE CASE KEEPS THE RENT A MOUTH VALERIE QUIET

no jury trial

Never know, could be a blessing in disguise if you'd otherwise end up with a jury full of members of the talk-back radio brigade, especially on an issue like this.  Also, could be a way for the Crown (here I mean the executive working with the  judiciary) to gracefully climb down from what they might now see as an embarrassing position - something there'd be no guarantee of achieving with an unruly red-neck jury.  No doubt government knows they've overstepped the mark but after everything that's happened it's way too late for them to admit it.  Government simply tells the judge down at the Northern Club one night what result they want, they go through the facade of a trial, the judge says not guilty, then the government says it still believes the case was brought properly but praises the fact we have an independent judiciary - and everyone's a winner, baby.  This might also be behind splitting the cases up to in some situations separate trials, because they want different results in each (not that this can't happen if all tried together). In any case, even if they did succeed in forcing guilty pleas (and I don't for a second believe they will) a judge sitting alone can still require sufficient evidence and in a case like this would be hopelessly remiss if they didn't.  It'll be interesting to see which lacky they stick on the bench, might even get a full bench of two.  In any case, make sure you all keep going.

Any outcome will be seen by

Any outcome will be seen by the divided public as partisan no matter which way the nominated judge rules because this is a political trial and everyone knows it on some level.

It seems that the crown intends to try these people using firearms law and unlawful possession of firearms (and I believe, criminal gang charges for some) as a means of continuing their accusations of terrorism or holding anti-state opinions.

How they do that without bringing up the specific intent of terrorism is beyond me, perhaps the crown intends to build their case on the percent of probabilities that the accused (surrogate accused of the crowns actual targetting of the Tuhoe tribe) could have carried out an act if they hadn't hit the Urewera as hard as they did.

Fact: 95% conviction rate for judge alone trials in NZ, add to that a 95% chance of conviction due to the political motivation for the judicary to railroad this into a judge alone trial since they are the third leg of the sovereign in this country with whom the police are claiming the Tuhoe wananga members were threatening with violence.

Doesn't look too promising they will get a fair trial.

Now lets compare that to the plowshares jury trial. Case in point, the crown was never going to let that happen again...ever.

  We cant just sit here and

 

We cant just sit here and let them be charged.We need to act somehow?

NATIONAL DAY OF ACTION?

NATIONAL DAY OF ACTION?

you lot grind my gears

For crying out loud. Anyone who's read the leaked evidence knows these nutters were involved acts more sinister than the very boring Arms Act charges that they now face. It's only because the terror legislation was drafted with Al Qaeda rather than domestic terrorists in mind that they aren't facing terrorism charges.

Saying the current charges are some kind of political crusade against the defendants is ridiculous. If there was some kind of orchestrated government conspiracy against them, they would be dead. Instead, they have got away with being charged with firearms offences - a slap on the wrist.

Who is the terrorist?

So you say that people don't have the right to protect themselves from the real terrorists, the ones who implemented the systems that oppress, maim, kill, cause suicides, cause sickness, wars and take human rights away, just because they hid behind special tricks, big agendas and deceptive words on legal paper. The real terrorists have a lot to answer to and they all have white collars and lots of gold that has been syphoned from the people of the land, their families, their children, their mokopuna.  Their (the real terrorists) time will come and then compassion will be given from the people they accused of being the terrorists in the first place.  Only then will the equation be balanced.  I am of the firm belief that it is the universe (the law of nature) that will take care of this one in the long run, no matter what appears to happen.  It is best left with that and hopefully pure and true justice can happen in the meantime.

Incorrect.

No. The real terrorists are the attention seeking nutcases with the home made napalm who want to kill innocent people just to make the point that they're pissy about the fact that everyone with an IQ greater than -40 and/or a primary school education woke up and stopped listening to their racist, ignorant, shallow, boring, neo-marxist agenda 30+ years ago. By that I mean Thomas Small and his mentally challenged entourage.

Not the sharpest crayon in the box

Looks like the deceptive system of trickery is working for well for you at least - today.  Glad that the times of full disclosure are upon us and all the lies will be revealed for all to see and a time of retribution based upon what people have done will affect us all.  The age of ethics will rule and people who are aware and live from the heart will be able to co-create a better future based upon love and truth.  Has very little to do with IQ, the rational, logical... There are times when all the worlds asleep.  The questions run to deep for such a simple man. 

  Pono you are a very 'on to

 

Pono you are a very 'on to it' individual.I'm just so impressed with you.

You are very wise and I've enjoyed reading your comments that 'make sense'-when the world is in ruins(happening now),  I agree all will be revealed-great comments.

 

BT

Alongside each other

Hi BT.  Together and with the awakened, we are all doing our part to co-create a better world.  Am enjoying seeing the PTB's lose traction as more truth is revealed and they have to come face to face with themselves.  We've all had to do that eh, and it's been worth it.  Yes, they steam, rant, attack, assault and all that, but they are digging themselves deeper and will have more to undo as a result.  Keep exposing the truth. We love our kids eh!  We are co-creating their future.  This is love.

Actually Lentil you should be

Actually Lentil you should be more worried about the nutters in parliament like Crusher Collins who are manufacturing a fear of 'terrorism' in order to pass anti-democratic legislation.

No, I should be more worried

No, I should be more worried about people like you who seem to support organised criminal behaviour.

Your theory about Govt using fear to gain political support is straight out of the Michael Moore book of conspiracies.  As such, it's unoriginal, unimpressive and inapplicable in the New Zealand context.

A disinformation artist

Spoken like a true disinformation artist.  Bored with the 'conspiracy' word.  Gonna have a go at ad hominem attacks next?  That would be expected.  The real criminals will and are being exposed.  Those who have been used to having 'power over' people now have the chance to also awaken or to experience powerlessness.  Don't resist Lentil, it will only harm you more in the long run.  There is a lot of satisfaction in loving people.  The truth can set you free too.

What are you talking about?

What are you talking about?

Pono's beliefs are straight

Pono's beliefs are straight out of the Gospel. Amen, brother.

Methane ideal fuel for fire

Lentil your words are like a gigantic and endless fart out of nowhere that emits immense quantaties of methane - even worse than the cows could fart with. I suggest you get your matches or lighter out and put a flame to it. You will be transmitted immediately by rocket force to the next dimension or planet, where weirdoes and other sickoes like you can thrive.

I woud be happy to subsidise and make a down payment towards the matches and lighter. The fuel - I trust - will be abundantly supplied by the corrupt guts of your organic structure close to physical decay.

Good luck anyway!

  Yep I agree, so lets Act.

 

Yep I agree, so lets Act. We can't waste our @ctivist time on here arguing with anyone.We will smash capitalism.

How?

How?

  The uniting of beyond

 

The uniting of beyond resistance, ABC, AWSM, Unite and a few others yeah?

Organisation of strategic protests (and more). I give those genuine persons authority to contact admin for my email.Im not afraid of the big bad wolf (capitalism) because I'm certain I know how we can smash it to peices without making a continued sound.

RISE UP all activists.We need strategic planning.We need to get people free.

We need action now.If we are to protest and plan also, we are going to need places to organise.We need access to those 'in the system'. We need the digits, the security codes. Terrorist jargon?Make your mind up.Protect those who want to protect you and who stand up for equal rights, and peace.The STATE, as I've said before are NOT listening.Every bone in the capitalist body must be broken.So please help me.I need you All.

Once you've smashed

Once you've smashed capitalism, what are you going to do with the pieces?

This above message needs to extend out from here

We need to make a non-violent awareness generating message here. The strategy needs to reach the people who are still asleep who don't realise that statutory 'legislation' that has imposed itself over common law is directly responsible for the global economic crisis (the bankers rule the world), for the poisoning of the masses with pharmaceutical drugs with chemicals proven toxic that are poisoning water supplies, food, air. For excusing all judges and lawyers from the atrocities they commit.  For killing, oppressing people, for making them into slaves and stripping them of their divine rights as people on the land (as opposed to dead in the waters). I reckon we need to convey that we the people are adult and able to live peacefully and harmoniously in our own societies where simple common law principles are applied and administered, eg. Do no harm to anyone else or their property and give full disclosure on contracts that may be consented to only with full knowledge in simple easily understood language - (no legal word magic) and willfully.  What are your ideas for banners?

Legislation is word magic ... you could be the next victim.

Legislation is 'Legalese' and not common English language (as we are led to believe)

Law can be simple and honouring to everyone.

Let law be based on love and not commerce.

Are you a dead, artifical corporate entity?  According to the legal system you are.

Dead or alive? Dead = legal system - You have been tricked.

Legislation - who gains... Only the members of the law society and the people they protect.

Common law... remember we are people and not collateral.

Legal people - It's not too late to change.

What matters most... It is people.  It is people.  It is people.

What deceives most.  It is persons. It is persons. It is persons.

PS. That is the UNITING OF BEYOND message

The truth can set us free

PS. That is the UNITING OF BEYOND message

The truth can set us free

"everyone with an IQ greater

"everyone with an IQ greater than -40 and/or a primary school education woke up and stopped listening to their racist, ignorant, shallow, boring, neo-marxist agenda 30+ years ago"

Even if that were true, they'd still be more people listening to them than the number listening to meaningless stream-of-conciousness tirades by anonymous blog commentators.

Thanks for your comment. At

Thanks for your comment. At least I can count on you to read my posts, Sam.

Thanks for your comment. At

Thanks for your comment. At least I can count on you to read my posts, Sam.

Sure there is a lot of regurgitated rhetoric that goes on here, some of it boring, some of it refreshing, some of it extrememly entertaining. I am still waiting for you to offer something new that isn't just a rewrite or update of rogernomics into modern script, or isn't just more of this reality checking narcicism you bring here (as in your reality is the only reality narcisism).

The last thing we need is more pining for the left to kiss the arse of the system like many inaffective lefties seem to enjoy doing, achieving zilch except adding zeros to their bank balances.

Hats off to the people of Tuhoe for standing up for what they believe in. You call them criminals Lentil, well since were in the name calling business then I call you a coward and a weak-spined turncoat, agent provocateur.

...rogernomics...I've never

...rogernomics...

I've never advocated rogernomics.   Do you even understand what that word means?  Or are you just using it as a synonym for right wing economic theory?

I call you a coward and a weak-spined turncoat, agent provocateur.

I'm here at Indymedia to tell people what I think, even though I know the audience won't like it. Challenging your world view may make me an "agent provocateur". But it certainly does not make me a "coward" or a "weak-spined turncoat".  Thanks anyway.

Hats off to the people of Tuhoe for standing up for what they believe in. 

I have no problem with people standing up for what they believe in and I have no problem with Tuhoe.  I do have a problem with people using terrorism to achieve their goals.  It is the tactics of violence, intimidation and terrorism that make Thomas Small and his friends criminals.  The strength of their convictions do not justify the use of those tactics.  The ends do not justify the means.

But it certainly does not

But it certainly does not make me a "coward" or a "weak-spined turncoat". Thanks anyway.

Attacking activists from behind the cloak of anonymonity, what does that qualify as in your books then? In the end who really gives a shit, you do not use your real name so why do you care what people call you.

Challenging your world view may make me an "agent provocateur".

Your talking points are a continuance of the police smear tactics that was intended by the compilation of the police affidavitt and the leaking of it via the Dominion Post and via Wikileaks to make sure as many people as possible got to read it (funny how the Crown is crying over the latest Wikileaks but you don't hear them complaining when the police affidavit was leaked via the same website).

The police first wanted the nation to view these people as terrorists and you viewed them as terrorists and still do. After that failed they campaigned to have these people viewed as criminals. Surprise surprise, you see them as criminals and terrorists. So my world view is not challenged by your perspective sorry just as it is not challenged by the police perspective since theirs and yours are essentially one in the same.

I do have a problem with people using terrorism to achieve their goals.

You speak as if these people committed acts of terrorism yet there are no terrorism charges, not even participating in a terrorist group charges, planning to commit a terrorist act of conspiring to do so.

It is the tactics of violence, intimidation and terrorism that make Thomas Small and his friends criminals.

You speak as if there is credible evidence of planning, conspiracy to commit, or preparing to do a criminal act. If that were the case would not the arrestees be charges as so under the crimes act?

I have no problem with people standing up for what they believe in and I have no problem with Tuhoe.

Yet the Tuhoe tribe has put its full support behind Taame Iti and those others arrested including the heads of all their trusts, and the head of Te Kotahi A Tuhoe, Tamati Kruger. It was the police commissioner Broad that tried to separate the people of Tuhoe out from those arrested by a not so clever campaign of his that also like the Ruatoki raids, failed.

In the end though you do not stand up for what you believe in do you do you 'Lentil'.

...rogernomics...I've never

...rogernomics...

I've never advocated rogernomics.   Do you even understand what that word means?  Or are you just using it as a synonym for right wing economic theory?

I call you a coward and a weak-spined turncoat, agent provocateur.

I'm here at Indymedia to tell people what I think, even though I know the audience won't like it. Challenging your world view may make me an "agent provocateur". But it certainly does not make me a "coward" or a "weak-spined turncoat".  Thanks anyway.

Hats off to the people of Tuhoe for standing up for what they believe in. 

I have no problem with people standing up for what they believe in and I have no problem with Tuhoe.  I do have a problem with people using terrorism to achieve their goals.  It is the tactics of violence, intimidation and terrorism that make Thomas Small and his friends criminals.  The strength of their convictions do not justify the use of those tactics.  The ends do not justify the means.

there was no napalm.  no arms

there was no napalm.  no arms or explosives cache.  no conspiracy or plan to attack the state.  two old pig hunting rifles is all they found.  how is it a crime to learn survival skills?

It is a crime under police

It is a crime under police lore....to possess a firearm and hold leftest beliefs. It is a bigger crime to hold a firearms licence and also hold those views.

The cops by the way, do not need to prove there was napalm there or explosives. They can literally run this entire trial based on the probabilities that a loud noise = explosives, a bottle in a rubbish bin = molotofs, and a fire = napalm. Under NZ law they also do not need a conspiracy to try someone for unlawful possession of firearms. If there was any proof of a conspiracy of any sort you could bet your left boot there are laws to charge people for that sort of thing, like conspiring to....or planning to...or similar, and these activists would be charged as so.

Make no mistake about it, this trial is a sham and it will inevitably have to be a stitch up in order for the cops to be successful.

  Hey Rarmer, I agree, so

 

Hey Rarmer, I agree, so what do we do, sit here and twiddle our thumbs.I'm willing to act, somehow.So get in touch.

  Don't call @ctivists

 

Don't call @ctivists 'nutcases'. They are not.

 

  I meant the 'don't call

 

I meant the 'don't call @activists nutcases for The Real Lentil'.

The Real Lentil-get on the right side, because it is about sides now.Peace and Love to you, bt.

    Pono, awesome words.Very

 

 

Pono, awesome words.Very clued up you sound.

  as for 'The Real Lentil'

 

as for 'The Real Lentil' the real terrorists, like what Pono and 'countless' others have said are the militarised, fascist, modernly-imperialised state which is now dangerous and out of control.

The state continues to take voting rights off prisoners, privatise them, raise food prices, degrade the environment etc.

 

Essentially....why do we need a militarised state?Why do we need defence?Borders?

 

Because that is how capitalism works, it works by taking away human rights at every level, fundamentally or not.

Pono and Bluntmanzz comments are great and so are radicals, because they 'make sense'.You dont 'The Real Lentil' sorry.

Your comments give light to the fact you suffer in your ignorance and 'pick on grassroots activists' which is not me presently but many of whom I look up to, and, well, support. Your name 'The Real Lentil' is also somehwhat misleading.

Don't waste your time and

Don't waste your time and energies with Lentil. Just another redbaiter Chris Trotter type whose only achievements are self promotion and promoting the status quo - crikey how hard is that. If you react to his diatribe then you will always lose the point of these discussions which is to discuss the crime being perpetrated by the crown here. That really is Lentils task, to divert the discussions.

Anyways, back on topic, this is a traversty and also noone really need to be surprised by the Crowns actions via the judicial. This is a shunting action in my opinion, of the landlords of big business a.k.a the crown, to shovel these activists into jail without a fair trial. By denying them their rights to a fair trial they remove the uncertainty that a jury presents.

That then also shows the government has no faith in the so called evidence they have amassed against the activists and against the Tuhoe tribe, being believed by a jury.

That then also shows

That then also shows the government has no faith in the so called evidence they have amassed against the activists and against the Tuhoe tribe, being believed by a jury.

Tame Iti = the Tuhoe tribe? WTF

It's only because the terror

It's only because the terror legislation was drafted with Al Qaeda rather than domestic terrorists in mind that they aren't facing terrorism charges.

Fancy that, drafting terror legislation to catch real terrorists then finding you cannot use it against your political opponents.

Saying the current charges are some kind of political crusade against the defendants is ridiculous.

Your defence of the crowns position is about the only really ridiculous thing I have read thus far. Lentil do you at least concede this trial has political overtones to it?

Actually you obviously didn't

Actually you obviously didn't understand what was in the "evidence" if you think there is solid evidence for charges. much of it was out of context, unrelated and supposition. when you have warrants for evidence that is listed as  "could not be identified" it makes me worry

I didn't say I thought there

I didn't say I thought there was sold evidence for charges. I said that I thought that the acts that were being planned were terrorism. In a better world, that would have meant that Tom Small and his pals would have been charged under appropriate terrorism legislation. Unfortunately, the Government stuffed up the drafting and the Solicitor General felt that charges couldn't properly be pursued because the law was unworkable.

I agree that it's not good for the Police to have warrants for items that are not identified. But I haven't seen the warrants so I can't comment. Maybe you misread them. But what I would really like to know is - what the hell do you think Tame Iti etc were up to? Why did it suddenly become fashionable to swap napalm recipes with your mates and talk about randomly killing people? Explanation please.

 In a better world I think

 In a better world

I think the term to describe your better world is authoritarian...yanno, when you change laws so that you can convict people you don't like.

Well, no.  I mean a world

Well, no.  I mean a world where the law is drafted clearly enough that it catches the kind of behaviour that it is intended to catch.  Whether I like them personally or not is irrelevant.  What is relevant is that they were planning on killing people and causing panic.  The law should be designed to stop that.

My own experience with "the law" and justice system

Getting your rights heard and upheld is either a matter of having the money to afford a good lawyer or barrister, or to work extremely hard yourself with or without legal aid to argue your case.

The interpretation of law is highly technical and demands a very good perception about basic legal principles. Most citizens and residents do already fail there and do never get true justice for themselve, simply for not understanding, for not affording and not being able to argue their own case.

Then the Courts are highly arbitrary in interpreting the law, looking at the person's standing, the diverse way of "interpreting" statutes or case law, then also being fussy about procedure and rules to follow, so getting your true "right" is always compromised by very many factors.

This results in most people having the impression of 'the law' being unjust, biased, unreasonable and basically a system of elitists deciding in a way that is not appropriate and does not meet their expectations.

So it is not surprising that the persons facing charges under the Arms Act and supposedly "participating in a criminal group" and so forth are denied a jury trial. It is just evidence for the elitist, selective, unfair and corrupt system we live under. The law as we have it is not for the people, it is against the people and upheld by the Crown that is a relict of colonial dominance and suppression.

We need to challenge the whole society and legal system and establish a new system based on a fair, equatable and basic law principles enforcing legal system for ALL.

Push this system out and take action, because it is against natural justice and constructed to suppress the majority.

cross roads

So basically revolutionaries and dissidents in the south pacific state are at a cross roads. Do they support those who may use violence or remain passive?

 

My own opinion is that we should go with the tactics of the indigenous peoples view, that of the so called 'Moari Wars' a civil war that is clearly still being fought today, its just the British have a heavier foothold today.

 

London this week has seen 'violent' actions that have put the education cuts on the top of the agenda but the far bigger non violent protests against the war in Iraq passed by without a political mutter.

"Arma in armatos sumere jura

"Arma in armatos sumere jura sinunt"

George Rangiaho
Ngati Rongo
Te Rohe o Ngai Tuhoe

I find it interesting that

I find it interesting that there are posts hidden on this thread that are entirely sane but for some reason seem to have worked the editorial collective into a fit of pique, but there's several posts from raving lunatics that have been left untouched.

That crosses the line and it's why Indymedia is becoming increasingly irrelevant here. There's plenty of other forums where dissent is not followed by blatant censorship dished out in an arbitrary fashion. I won't lie and say I didn't find it kind of amusing in the past but you're looking like a bunch of arseholes now.

You can't have a revolution if you're too busy having a big fucking cry.

 

El Mutante, did you bother to

El Mutante, did you bother to read the UPDATE on top of the article?

UPDATE: After being contacted by NZ Crown Law Office, the ((i))ndymedia editorial collective has decided to edit this article slightly and hide some comments, as was done by Scoop a few days ago. .....

I'm pretty sure that the

I'm pretty sure that the UPDATE wasn't there when I posted my comment yesterday. So yes, I can now grasp that you're being squeezed externally, and thankyou for putting things in capital letters so I know that you're emphasizing things. Otherwise I never would have noticed.

Please advise clearly what Crown Law expected!

I have had experience with Crown Law, respect them to a degree, but otherwise consider most of their work and attitude to be totally subserviant to the government of the day!

So please point out clearly what they wanted to be "corrected". It would help us get a clearer picture. Or shall we get Julian Assange to address this matter also?

The Crown should be overthrown and abolished anyway if the people had any say and any balls at all in NZ!

We should have "the people" decide about governments, the law, the instutitions, the legal rights and obligations, citizenry, Tangata Whenua issues and so forth. The Crown is a relict of the past and has outlived it's right to put any pressure on people in Aotearoa NZ.

But that can only be corrected if people wake up, take a stand and not think it is more important to adapt, bow to pressure, work under unacceptable working conditions, get indebted by simply trying to survive, get brainwashed and stupified eternally.

So the challenge must be put to all our friends, neighbours, associates, work-mates and whosoever. Get real, wake up talk to each other and organise rather than sit in front of the laptop and follow illusory dreams promoted by Facebook, Bebo, Friendster, Google, YouTube and whatever. What a challenge aye?

Decision by the Collective

I accept that due to a case still being before the courts requires people to not make certain statements and allegations. That I understand my have caused Crown Law to get involved. Otherwise I reserve to myself and others the right to comment on Crown Law's practices and policies. That should never be restricted under any law.

Indeed I feel most honoured that a recent post by me in relationship to this topic has been "hidden". That is the greatest honour a true democrat and activist can ask for!

Keep up the good work - collective editors. I have no other gripes at present and trust you will otherwise continue to maintain this to be an open forum for truly independent, just, humane and dedicated posters wanting a positive change for all in society.

For the record, I think you,

For the record, I think you, indymedia and anyone else should be entitled to express whatever opinions they like without any fear of repercussions.  Transparency and free and frank debate cornerstones of a democratic society. 

I might not agree with your opinions. But I fully support your right to hold and express them.

Educate

I feel people can start educating their families and friends about what is really going on in this matrix and back it up with references and facts, start out with handing out dvd's of documentaries that the mainstream avoid which show what is really going on in this matrix system. If change is to come it starts with value changes within ourselves and from there extending it out to others of like mind and heart. We are starting to see the pirates on our ship (earth) being exposed and realising our ship (earth) has been hijacked by these pirates while we have been in our hypnotic coma states which is wearing off fast. So people/human changes will need to be a social change not political change and that comes from changing our values/beliefs and getting back in synch with nature/universal lore/law. There is no stopping this shift at all, as for the crown and their robotic compliant agents they will have to make a choice, 1) Stay on their current path = A orwellian police state NWO = Fully Functional Pyramid Social Structure = Burnt our planet = Human Extinction (including their future generations) or 2) Update their values and beliefs to those in accordance with Nature/Universal lore/law = Heightened Conscious Awareness = Transparent Holographic Social Structure = A whole new world. It all starts with a choice between love and fear......

 

  

Re: Educate

I agree Uenuku Toa.  Which documentaries can you recommend and can you post the links so people can start downloading them, copying them and handing them out.  I just saw this movie http://www.cveitch.org/?p=1083.  People from all over the whole world are waking up to the corruption and their fearlessness is increasing.  Exposure of truth is key now.  A system that demands secrecy, conceals information and threatens people to get their way is purely an abusive system.  You see the pattern in sexual abuse and rape.  If everyone stopped paying taxes, fines, going to court, feeding the system that is so corrupt and put their energy into creating their own societies based upon ethical values and FOR the people and not against them we have a hope to create a better future.  We have been tricked into being a part of "New Zealand" society.  "New Zealand" and "The Crown" are not what most people believe them to be and from the information I've seen recently it also appears that the representatives of "New Zealand" are put in place through deceptive processes, not correctly appointed at all.  Full disclosure was never made readily available and given when we registered our children and young people were never fully informed that after turning 18 what it meant to be represented by a parliament who uses legislation to harvest energy from them - like the battery cell in the matrix movie - humans being harvested for their energy.  The trick seems to be all about demoralising people so they can no longer know who they really are.  Threatening people to consent and claim they are someone they are not seems to be a major tactic of the application of statutory law.  People are threatened and harassed to go against their own will to register 'births', when a baby is born and make a dead artificial entity out of it.  This is co-ersion in normal English language.  This is why the government and the courts force their power over people.  It's only words and legislation and we need to stop supporting this tyranny en masse.

 

  Ae, you are

 

Ae, you are wise.Unfortunately violence will be all we have left.We need weapons now, we need access to them because the state/greed/corruption is 'stronger than ever'.Through my sadness I don't see there being another way.

The state and its systems need to be 'ripped apart'.That should be the goal now.We need to remember the dead, remember the people oppressed...and act NOW to gain access to tech/weapons and TAKE THE POWER BACK PEOPLE!

Get access and get in.

Kia Ora BT, the power is with

Kia Ora BT, the power is with the masses or in terms of the Pyramid it is the BASE of the pyramid that holds the power because it holds the whole pyramid up, which is symbolic that we the masses are holding this corrupt, outdated, reward based, pyramid monetary social structure together not the cap stone and the ones at the top. They have created fear in us through lies and deception which have shaped our beliefs and values that we have become compliant and robotic. 

Once we realise this and start to non-participate in it and start creating new, better & transparent systems such as those PONO mentioned like a Common Law society, creating your own gardens, food, water and self sustainable systems there will be no one for those in the cap stone to manipulate and control any longer. We have the power we always have, the power of mass creation...  

Well said Pono Freeman, i

Well said Pono Freeman, i recommend people start off watching:

Wake Up Call - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX_qOaZmCFM

Zeitgeist Addendum - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg

Slavery By Consent - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKox3w3XXcY

Money As Debt - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8

These are recommended just for starters there are a whole bunch of others that will raise your awareness once you take the red pill and see the matrix for what it really is. People need to do their own research and discovery to really start changing beliefs and values that have been so well ingrained and indoctrinated into us at such a young age from school & the controlled education system.

I recommend to watch this short clip and see how we have been systemised to accept things without question (Robotic Compliant WEAKNESS) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZeiSKnhOBc

Word Magic = Legalese has been around for quite a while and is the weapon of our current western society to manipulate, control, subdue, conform to, etc etc. Once we see the truth and move from fear to love true change will manifest into reality for a better world.   

 

  Kia Ora and yep well said!I

 

Kia Ora and yep well said!I agree, a common law society would be nice.

In regards to violence in order to get there, I hope that it is not needed.I'm really hoping.

Kia Kaha good peoples of Aotearoa, a sacred land.We must protect her,it starts in person's backyard and trails off from there.Remember Karma bites, it wont stop at biting those who seek to oppress.

Black Tulip.

It's not a person it's a the

It's not a person it's a the highlands of a largely submerged bit of continental shelf. Why is it that the small and disjointed dissident voice in this country seems to be frought with mad hippies with clues that seem to have been informed by one mushie season too many?

NZ government and courts illegitimate

According to this and other sources it appears that the NZ government and courts are illegitimate.  http://www.solomonstarnews.com/viewpoint/private-view/9538-australia-and-new-zealand-governments-illegitimate

What is tika and true is the Declaration of Independence and customary Maori lore, tikanga lore.  It must be stopped somehow and people should not by brute force be subjected to this very corrupt and fraudulent system.  Having a tazer at your body and being threatened with imprisonment if you do not consent to this disgusting, manipulated and devilish system does not make anything right.  They are terrorists in the truest meaning of the word in my opinion. 

Spread the link and spread the word as soon as.

 

 

If Crown law is illegitimate

As Crown Law is illegitimate according to the above article, obeying any orders of it must just be a response to the brute force they impose on people.  Total manipulation and control only.  It is "The Crown" that needs to prove it's legitimacy, honourably and just through brute force again.

Furthermore what say does 'The Crown' have about what goes on the internet.  They live in a colourable dreamworld, similar to people who have had too much 'P' or Ecstacy.  What say can they have about anything?  It is time for them to suffer the hell they are created themselves.

Merry Xmas

As Crown Law is illegitimate according to the above article

The article didn't say that Crown Law was illegitimate.

Furthermore what say does 'The Crown' have about what goes on the internet. 

It's the Courts, not the Crown, that made the suppression order. Because the NZ Courts have jurisdiction over people in NZ, that order has the effect of preventing people in NZ from publishing the suppressed information. It doesn't matter whether the medium through which that information is published is a newspaper or the internet.  So long as the person publishing the information is in NZ then they are subject to the suppression order.

The Crown has not ordered anything - because the Crown doesn't have that legal power - making orders is the Courts' role.  What the Crown has done is simply to say that it thinks that information published on this site was in breach of the suppression order and ask the site to remove it.

Corrections to any error...

Thank you Lentil for the information.  As I’m obviously ignorant of the riddle-culousness of the system that has the blood of the innocent on its hands, I’ll quote directly from the article, “All Legislative Acts of the Australian, New Zealand or Canadian governments have absolutely no authority and are therefore imposed domestically by force  upon the inhabitants of those lands and as a consequence of this revelation, those inhabitants are not bound by such laws.”

And... “Australian and New Zealand Police and Military personnel of RAMSI have no lawful right of impersonation and are all guilty of committing criminal offences. None of them should be here! What is their authority above brute force?  After the public disclosure of this information, none can claim to be ignorant – after all, does it not go something like “ignorance of the law is no excuse?”

And... “All judges purporting to hold authority conferred by the Independent Sovereign Nations of Australia or New Zealand are in effect committing fraud and the crime of impersonation. This should come as no surprise as their careers, income and superannuation depend upon maintaining the system – no matter how corrupt it is!  Any person prosecuted by and/or convicted of a crime by any of those so-called prosecutors or judges have been victims of criminal acts perpetrated against them. Compensation is surely due.”

And... “The Australian, New Zealand and Canadian Governments are illegitimate and the inhabitants of those lands have the right to ignore, disregard and lawfully rebel against ALL 'laws' passed by those parliaments to ensure that criminal acts do not continue to be perpetrated against them, by those that have absolutely no authority.  In this they will need help because just like the mafia, these governments have guns. Now do you see why there is such a push to disarm the population?

Could this be why the New Zealand Parliament are at this very time meeting behind closed doors to discuss just how they will try and legitimise themselves by creating their own constitution?  I am sure by now they will realise the game is up.

This could also be why no rights and freedoms of the people are enshrined in any of the constitutions of Australia or New Zealand – being colonial constitutions the people these Acts applied to were covered by British human rights legislation - But not anymore!  That is because they simply do not give a toss about protecting anyone that they have no authority to protect, yet they believe they have the authority to persecute, oppress, tax and continue to hold their serfs in bondage.

As an aside, New Zealand is in the unique position of having two political hot footballs called the Declaration of Independence 1835 and Te Tiriti O Waitangi 1940 (both recognised under international law) – you see in New Zealand (or the land commonly referred) the true Sovereign Nation is in fact the Maori Nation if you want to take it from a “legal” standpoint.

Another political minefield for the fraudulent New Zealand Government, is that it seems the only legitimate Defence or Security Force that exists in New Zealand (and given authority and recognition by the Maori Government of Aotearoa - who incidentally was given Authority in Waitangi by Te Whakaminenga O Aotearoa according to lore), is in fact, the New Zealand Armed Intervention Force and remains true to this very day!  I bet that will upset them
!”

You're confused.  Crown Law

You're confused.  Crown Law is not a concept.  It's statutory body whose function is to act as legal advisers to the Crown.  This matter about the Solomon Islands has no connection with Crown Law.  Although it's mildly amusing in a rambling nonsensical kind of way.

  No, 'Merry Lentil' you are

 

No, 'Merry Lentil' you are the one who's confused.

Aotearoa(rightly) has a stinking indoctrinated fundamental crap-filled so called 'Legal system' which should be called 'An Oppressive System'.

For no legal systems at all.

 

How can you criticise

How can you criticise something you don't understand?

To understand it is to stand under it.

That is why.  Who in their right mind would understand the 'legal' system. 

In order to achieve agreement, all parties must understand the full scope and nature, the full terms and conditions, of the proposed contract, or no agreement – and hence no contract – exists. Parties must achieve a “meeting of the minds” for any agreement to exist.

Any purported “contract” that fails to be characterised by mutual good faith, meeting of the minds, open and full disclosure of all terms and conditions, is either void or voidable.  It is flawed from inception and can be rendered null and void by the election of the deceived or defrauded party.

Essentials of consent:  The consent of the parties to a contract must be free, mutual and communicated by each other.  An apparent consent is not real or free when obtained through duress, menace, fraud, undue influence or mistake.

The crucial and incurable flaw in all governments and the “laws” which issue from them, is the nonexistence of genuine agreement between the parties due to absence of full disclosure, true meeting of the minds and mutual good faith.  In presuming to have formed a bona fide, good faith contract with government, the “citizens” were never informed of the full terms and conditions of the alleged contract.  They were never told that they would sacrificing their freedom and autonomy and agreeing to become subjugated, ruled, exploited slaves of whatever men or women occupy positions of “authority” in the so-called “government”.

A contract between private

A contract between private parties is different to the social contract between the state and its citizens.  The legal principles applicable to one are not relevant to the sociological principles arising from the other.  But seeing as you've put your bush lawyer hat on, please allow me to don mine:

In order to achieve agreement, all parties must understand the full scope and nature, the full terms and conditions, of the proposed contract, or no agreement – and hence no contract – exists. 

Wrong. All you need is the essential terms.

Any purported “contract” that fails to be characterised by mutual good faith, meeting of the minds, open and full disclosure of all terms and conditions, is either void or voidable...

Wrong. Good faith is not an essential element of a contract.  A failure for there to be a meeting of the minds means that the contract never existed - not that the contract is void or voidable. A disclosure of proposed terms and conditions determines the content of a contract - not its existence. 

Essentials of consent:  The consent of the parties to a contract must be free, mutual and communicated by each other.  An apparent consent is not real or free when obtained through duress, menace, fraud, undue influence or mistake.

You mean 'acceptance', not consent. Otherwise, correct in the sense that a party can apply to Court for an order that the contract is unenforceable....

If you feel that the principles of contract apply to the principles of government, why don't you apply to Court to set aside the social contract you have with the Crown? LOL!

CROWN LAW

 

**CROWN** law is made up by those with power of capitalism.Its set up to oppress. Sorry Merry Lentil, but I think Pono hits the mark with his statements, they are very onto it.

No.  Crown Law is made up of

No.  Crown Law is made up of lawyers and support staff, all of whom are public servants.  As such it has real connection to Capitalism.  But thanks for your comment.

Capitalism is nothing more

Capitalism is nothing more than a failed experiment such as communism & socialism, they are obsolete pyramid structures of economic slavery, time to move to a holographic social structure of transparency. A Resourced Based Economy - A world without money, a system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude.

When consciousness goes up the monetary system comes down, and with it the political, legal and corporate system. It's happening right now, enjoy the ride.

Bring it on........

 

 

capitalism ruining the earth

 

Ae, and Kia Ora Uenuku (very cool name).Your words are so wise.Im getting persuaded into veganism now because of learning that capitalism's system and ways of treating all sentient beings is unjust there I strive personally towards this goal!.(a bit off subject I know).I feel a resource-based economy is the answer to the pitfalls of the "made-up" name 'capitalism' that is keeping people starving, ruining the earth's natural  rythmic balances, dividing people, driving people to place money over people, profit and suffering, capitalism keeps the weapons industry going.Its too unjust.I can see why there is now violence among those who have 'awoken' to see that capitalism is 'not on'.Peace and Love will come from organised strategies.

I think there are two

I think there are two conversations going on here. Crown law is how law is often grouped by Maori activists where they distinguish the system of law brought in by the Crown i.e. legislative laws and common laws, from Maori law (or how it is hegemonically described by the Crown as the lesser 'Maori Lore'.

The Crown Law Office however is a virtual position occupied by privately contracted companies to handle what is in most countries a public prosecutors position. The company that does most of the political trials for the crown is Meredith Connell where one of its solicitors holds a warrant as crown solicitor in order for that to be the case.

The crown

This is a chapter from a book called, "Your will be done" by ARTHUR A. CHRESBY, Research Analyst in Constitutional Law, and formerly Federal Member for Griffith (QLD) [1958-61] in the House of Representatives

What is the Legal Function and Duty of a Minister of the Crown?

Over the years you have been encouraged to believe, quite incorrectly, that:

Ministers of the Crown are the government.   Legally they are not.

The party with the greatest support in Parliament has the right to become the government and to appoint its own Ministers to govern the State or Commonwealth.   Legally this not so.

Ministers of the Crown are responsible to Parliament and, through Parliament, to the People.

Legally this is not so.

The Ministers of the Crown, or government, have been elected with a mandate from the People; a mandate to carry out the entire policy and platform of the party (platforms which the majority of electors have never seen, let alone studied), Legally this is quite false.

Not one of the above beliefs could withstand constitutional challenge in the Courts. They are wholly and solely political party propaganda without one scintilla of Constitutional and legal truth. They are party political practices developed to suit political parties and have no legal connection with the Commonwealth and State Constitutions. They are falsely called “conventions of the constitution”.

Ministers of the Crown ARE NOT and LEGALLY NEVER CAN BE the government, for, as will be shown in later Chapters, the TRUE LEGAL GOVERNMENT is non elective, residing in perpetuity in the institution of the Monarchy and is exercised, for the Monarchy, by the Governor-General in the Commonwealth, and State Governors in the States. That is precisely, and legally, what the words “Governor General” and “Governor“ mean.

One Who Legally Governs

Ministers of the Crown are not legally nor constitutionally responsible to the Houses of the Parliament nor to the people. They are solely responsible to the Queen through the offices of Governor General, and or State Governors, as the case may be.

Consequently, Ministers of the Crown can have no mandate of any kind from the people, neither can the political party which claims, quite legally wrongly, to appoint them. Any such claims are pure party propaganda with no legal basis whatever. Irrespective of whether they be Federal or State Ministers of the Crown they have precisely ONE LEGAL FUNCTION and one LEGAL DUTY:

a) Their legal function is to administer departments of State on behalf of the Queen and in accordance with parliamentary legislation relating to their specific department.

b) For this legal function they are paid salaries out of Crown revenue and, like other departmental officers, they are paid servants of the Crown, excepting that other paid public servants are generally secure in their appointment until retirement whilst Ministers are wholly dependent upon the Monarchy (through its Representatives) and can be dismissed at will by that Monarchy.

c) The legal DUTY of the Ministers of the Crown is that, by virtue of being Ministers, they become AUTOMATICALLY honorary advisors, to the Queen through Her Representatives.

d) As honorary advisors they AUTOMATICALLY are Members of the Executive Council (State or Federal) which is set up by the Constitutions to give advice to the Queen, or legal government of the Commonwealth or the State.

As already stressed above, Ministers of the Crown are the paid legal servants of the permanent government, and their legal responsibility is directly, and can only be, to that legal government and to no one else. On the other hand, the permanent legal government or Monarchy IS WHOLLY AND SOLELY LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE DIRECTLY TO THE PEOPLE, AND TO NO ONE ELSE. But this vital knowledge has, for party political purposes, been carefully kept from the Australian People. This is why the People do not realise, and have no real knowledge of, the full significance of what the institution of the Monarchy legally means in their daily lives. This will be explained in further Chapters.

A Prime Minister, or Premier, or Minister, who claims to speak as the government, without first stating that he “is authorised by Her Majesty's Government Commonwealth”, or State as the case may be is, whether he realises it or not, making a legally false claim.

Under Commonwealth and State Constitutions ALL MINISTERS of the Crown STAND EQUAL TO EACH OTHER IN LAW, none is subordinate to the other; all are equal before Her Majesty. Thus, in cold hard legal law, no Prime Minister or State Premier has any legal power of control over the other ministers, unless a specific Act of Parliament gives him that control for specific purposes AND ONLY for that purpose. The correct legal role of a Minister of the Crown is that he can only speak as a Minister of State in relation to his department. He speaks as the paid public head administrator of his department and in no other capacity. Under the non legal practices of party politics, Ministers are in consistent breach of their true legal role when they claim to speak for “the government'' or as “my government”.

Sentient beings and The issue of the Crown

Hi BT.  I think you raise an important topic here and see how it is related to the whole context of this conversation because consciousness has a big influence on what happens in our world.  It is my opinion and belief that the way we treat other sentient beings that live and breathe and are here for other purposes than to be eaten (like we would like to think for ourselves) reflects on the way that humans treat each other.  You could say that most humans on this earth now are part of the factory farm raised for energy and when that energy is no longer required, the agenda is the slaughter them as they are thought of as having no value any longer and their feelings, values, purpose is not acknowledged at all by the killers - only the hunger for their meat and the belief that they must have it in order to survive.  It could be a fragment of the reptilian brain playing itself out.  I think all humans have that and have the ability to become aware of it and grow out of it, become more loving and realise that the existence of all sentient living beings is a beautiful and awesome thing.  It all does line up for me, but we are all here together being conscious and asleep to various degrees together as well and none of it can be judged right or wrong in the long run.  It is just the way it is and we all have to grow from life experiences.  I encourage this kind of consciousness to grow as together we make the world a better place with the potential to live in harmony rather than prey off each others energy and life.  The changes within ourselves precede the changes we see in the world.  We are the change we wish to see in the world.

How does that relate to the crown?  Well perhaps there reptilian brain is still a big feature of their consciousness.  The inability to empathise or have compassion plays a big part.  Their greed for peoples lives, liberties, freedom and property features big.  Their brutality towards human beings is at an all time high.  They are also known to have frenzies over blood sacrifices according to many who have studied them, and what they serve.  Interesting eh.

So true Pono, it is just a

So true Pono, it is just a matter of time before these economic slavery structures fall, let's start creating, the power is with all people, to create peace, love and oneness.

 

  Ae, I agree with everyone

 

Ae, I agree with everyone except 'Real Lentil' 'Merry Lentil'.

I also support certain types of T********.

Peace now will only come from, well, who knows.What I do know is that the STATE has too much power.Food is thrown from hotels while others starve.The OIL industry is CORRUPT.The meat industry want to poison all with their "AGRI-CHEMICALS".I say, RISE UP ACTIVISTS.I support you.

I support AntiT********

It is important to know who is who in all of this.  T******** can not be fought with T********.  AntiT******** is a better definition for what is truly going on - exposure, waking up and waking people up and not support government, courts, police, the system any longer. 

It is only the bluntest crayons in the box who are under the illusion that the Government, Crown, legal society complete with all the supporters of the legal system actually care about people or consider their best interests - not that there may be some who start out with good intentions, but contamination of their being and thinking sets in fast - nothing a pay incentive and a few perks don't take care of. 

The people of the world are waking up even though their health has been assaulted with with poisoning the skies (chemtrails of barium, aluminium, strontrium, H1N1 virus etc), waters (1080, agricultural chemicals, radioactive matter etc), lands (fee simple land titles, theft, chemicals, sprays, Oil, petrochemicals, HAARP induced earthquakes and detrimental weather patterns), food (additives, sulphites, MSG, preservatives, diseases), drinking water (toxic amounts of fluoride, chlorine, heavy metals). 

Come on - get real Lentil.  If you stand on the side of government who are the puppets of the global elite, monarchy and (crown henchmen) who support and create all this, you must be one of them.  The law of nature will take care of you lot in the long run even though the people have been disempowered and suppressed for so long. 

Hey, The Red Rentl - in the

Hey, The Red Rentl - in the words of John Pilger to Kim Hill during the infamous interview: "read, just read". 

In the immortal words

Don't believe everything you read.

~Anonymous

I didn't say that anyone

I didn't say that anyone should.  Is that why you don't read?  As a response to my comment the logical extension is that you don't.

No. I'll spell it out for

No. I'll spell it out for you, if you can't get it: I think you've read and believed things that aren't true.

You say "no".  No to what? 

You say "no".  No to what?  Your comment suggests you haven't read what I said properly or more to the point haven't understood it.  That's okay, but seriously now, what is it you think I've read that isn't true?  You haven't said yet.

If Crown law is illegitimate

As Crown Law is illegitimate according to the above article, obeying any orders of it must just be a response to the brute force they impose on people.  Total manipulation and control only.  It is "The Crown" that needs to prove it's legitimacy, honourably and just through brute force again.

Furthermore what say does 'The Crown' have about what goes on the internet.  They live in a colourable dreamworld, similar to people who have had too much 'P' or Ecstacy.  What say can they have about anything?  It is time for them to suffer the hell they are created themselves.

Greetings all. Just a quick

Greetings all. Just a quick note of encouragement to those facing state persecution. Hang in there, our thoughts are with you all.

See I reckon the Crown knows

See I reckon the Crown knows its going to lose so they probably think its better to lose in front of a judge that way they at least get a chance to appeal.