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London: Tory HQ Occupied as 50,000 Protest Education Cuts

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Around 50,000 students marched against education cuts in a national DEMOLITION demonstration called by UCU and NUS in London (UK). Report and pics [1 | 2 | 3]. 30 Millbank Tory HQ was occupied and protestors took roof:

"We oppose all cuts and we stand in solidarity with public sector workers, and all poor, disabled, elderly and working people. [...] This is only the beginning of the resistance to the destruction of our education system and public services." read in full

Later Parliament Square was occupied (again) by the Open University and on Thursday the campaign against fees and cuts is calling to sign a statement of solidarity with the arrested students and an anti-repression blog has been set up.

Full feature | demo2010 wire | Tumblewire. Voices from the movements [1 | 2] and what the mainstream says [1 | 2 | 3]

A firsthand account

Arriving at the starting point of the demo the energy (and noise) levels were already extremely high. There were thousands of young people from all over the country, but it seemed that the whole event was being carefully controlled by stewards. All the placards had lame reformist slogans (admittedly with a few vaguely funny ones) and we were expecting a pretty tame march from A to B. When we finally found the Anarchist (or “Radical Workers and Students”) block, after fighting our way through Trotskyists and NUS stewards, I was disappointed to see that it was pretty small and not in a very good position in terms of visibility. On the march itself, the only act of civil disobedience we saw was a short lived attempt by about 20 people to sit down and block the road. However, when we passed the Milbank building the anarchists had been split up a little and when we looked back to try and spot some red and blag flags we were surprised to see that they were in amongst a group of probably hundreds of others. People were running into the building trying to smash windows and graffiti-ing the walls, because we didn’t see exactly how it started we don’t know how true the mainstream media’s claim that a small group of anarchists “hijacked” the peaceful protest by instigating property damage is. One thing though is for absolute certain, that self-identified anarchists were themselves only a small minority of all the people engaged in all the acts of civil disobedience and property damage. Even at this point there were literally hundreds of people either directly pushing against police, throwing stuff at them or smashing things. The NUS claim that there were over 50 000 people in total at the demonstration and only a minority took part in the “violence”. A “minority” of this number would mean far more people than usually attend demos in recent years.

That first incident seemed to die down quite soon and we assumed it would be easily put down by the Met, based on previous painful experience of their capabilities. Besides, we had already seen more property damage than had happened at the London G20 protests, and of a more suitably symbolic building so it had already been more of a successful demo than we’d been expecting. We walked on and soon came to the end point of the march. Predictably enough for a demo organised by bureaucrats, we were expected to stand around listening to speeches and chanting in a space controlled by security guards and stewards. We decided “fuck this” and were on our way back down towards where we came from, when we noticed smoke coming from the courtyard in the Milbank building. The energy there then was pretty excited and there were virtually no police in sight, there was a small line of cops at the entrance and people were already throwing stuff at them – to a degree rarely seen at demos in Britain. However, we had received a call out to go to the business and innovation centre where apparently something was going down. We never made it there because as we were walking down we saw a crowd of people with a sound system break away from the crowds to the end point. They went down a side street and had a mini reclaim the streets style party with a line of riot police watching, whilst blocking the way to the lib dem headquarters. Amusingly that street was called “cowley street” the same name of a famous leader of the brighton squatting movement during the great depression. People danced to dub step for a while and threw stuff at cops before going back toward the tory hq where the fires were still burning. When we go back there we saw a push and shove situation with the cops in front of one of the big glass walls, that was already nearly completely smashed apart.

The stand off continued for a while, with heightening tensions, amplified by shouts of support from thousands of people behind. Some demonstrators were already inside waving placards and further trying to help break the glass. When the crowds saw that people had got on to the roof and were waving banners, read and blag flags, with their fists in the air, they screamed encouragement and further energised those at the front lines. Eventually some people started smashing apart a different glass wall and the police didn’t even try to stop them. It came down with a resounding crash and we all piled in to the foyer of the building, there was probably over 100 people in this area, some smashing windows, some pushing against cops to gain to access to the stairs, all shouting “tory scum, tory scum”. There was a tense stand off at the door for a while and the very few cops guarding it seemed shit scared and confused, finally this was resolved: we got the doors open. This enabled many to make their way through the building, smashing what they could and making their way to the roof. Many managed to escape through the fire exit after staying as long as they individually felt necessary, but according to news reports some were still inside hours later, and probably many got arrested.

The storming of the Tory party HQ occurred about an hour after the organised march had already started gathering at its final destination point to watch important people deliver pre-recorded (largely inaudible) messages on a giant TV screen. A high-spirited spontaneous demo had been occupying the square outside of the building with a bonfire of placards since the march had passed it by en route. This was despite the stewards’ attempts to file everybody by the building unnoticed, and the crowd seemed a broad representation of demo participants (mostly unmasked with a variety of placards and signs); far from the ‘organised contingent of troublemaker anarchists’ that Aaron Porter, the MET and the mainstream media have predictably reported as at the heart of all transgressive action. In fact, the radical student and workers’ bloc called for by sol fed and afed was disappointingly small and disorganised; comprising just a handful of red and black flags amongst other demonstrators, and seemed to get broken apart 2/3 of the way through the march when cops held the crowd back at a roundabout.

When the plate glass windows of the building started getting smashed, the atmosphere within the square was energetic. The entire crowd seemed behind the actions, cheering support for those at the front, calling for people to move in en masse, and continuously pushing forward in an attempt to do so. This action did not seem in any way pre-planned, but happened spontaneously in the midst of a lively and diverse mass demo of students wanting to direct their anger directly at some of those responsible for selling out their futures (continual chants of ‘Tory scum’ and the like).

There were relatively few cops defending the building at this point and the crowd was able to push through at various points using bodymass with minimal physical interaction once the windows had been broken. Many, once in, set about helping others to join them by smashing other windows (lots of them without masks) to open the atrium up to the surging crowd. Greater numbers were only prevented from getting into the atrium (which filled up quickly) by the lifts having been disabled and the stairwell being blocked off by cops with drawn batons. However the police were lacking in numbers and were prevented from forming a solid line by protestors linking arms and using effective bodymass (we witnessed one individual dearrested by the crowd after having been pulled by cops from this group). Eventually the few police defending the door withdrew, enabling many of the crowd to join comrades on the roof.

Physical violence inside was minimal at this stage, consisting mainly just of pushing, with cops outnumbered and therefore unwilling to antagonise, and protestors intent only on getting further into the building. In fact most of the violence named by the news reports seems mainly to refer just to property damage. This consisted mostly of smashed windows and fire hoses/extinguishers set off, although we have also heard reports of a fire extinguisher dropped from the roof, and we left relatively early. The crowd packed into the square remained supportive of those within the building, cheering and waving at people on the roof. After less than half an hour of our having joined the initial group of occupiers on the roof, a decision was taken collectively by a spontaneous meeting of lots of those present to leave the building together as a group, which we did successfully, a small number of people remaining behind. Having locked their doors, the tory offices which occupied the lower floors of the building (and those inside them) remained untouched.

Comments

Yeah right

Attacking the Tory HQ because they did not repeal what was a Labor Party initiative under the previous Govt.

 

SMASH THE SOCIALIST TOTALITARIAN STATIS CULTURAL MARXIST FRANKFURT SCHOOL SCUM!!!

BOW YOUR KNEES BEFOR THE FACE OF RADICAL TRADITIONALISM.

 

LONG LIVE THE NEW RIGHT. LONG LIVE JULIUS EVOLA!!!

idiotic spoiled middle class socialists

No it's who were never ever in support of the tory party, who are rioting because that same tory party is part of a left-of-centre coalition implementing socialist policies to pay for their education.

Seriously, I am pissing myself laughing that socialists are opposing making the richest pay more and the poorest pay nothing. I mean WTF?

Hey!The rich should pay more

Hey!The rich should pay more and help those less fortunate dont you feel?

Heard of robin-hood tax?

Great idea.dont put down socialists either, I know some damn cool ones.

Tuition fees are iniquitous.

Tuition fees are iniquitous. They are the result of NU-Labour's bollocks aim to send 50 percent of school leavers to "uni". You can't have the latter without the former.

There is no doubt about it, tuition fees will dissuade genuinely intelligent youngsters from poor backgrounds from applying to universities - which is very sad.

This is not what these riots are about however. The rioters are not a cross-section of intelligent students and intelligent would-be students, they are a cross-section of 18 to 20 -something year olds of outstandingly average intelligence. It is dawning on them that they have been duped, they are angry that the Nu-Labour "everyonesawinner big-up tha yoof" gravy train is grinding to a halt. In a typical knee-jerk reaction [fanned by plenty of militant Iago-types with their own political agendas] the yoof is taking it out on those who they perceive to be the villains of the piece, the ones who have apparently burst the bubble.

It must be crushingly disappointing to realise that the world doesn't owe them a living after all...

Time for a revolution.

UK police do a great job in difficult circumstances, not least trying to please the public in a PC age. I am full of admiration for the police and I salute them. The public must now back them too, not attack them, if they so value their way of life. Without them we'll have anarchy. Be under no illusions - you middle-classes.

I was delighted to learn recently that riot training has been increased for the police over recent years and the military have been put on standby during this budget cut period. To do what is necessary to defend Parliament, Government and, of course, our sacred Crown. If this involves shooting at students, so be it. It could be you next. I'd happily get back into military uniform to serve The Crown.

In the meantime, the Government must launch an inquiry into what is going on at places of learning. Particularly the NUS, universities and comprehensives. Is this the immoral scum that now fills all our comprehensives and universities today? The worship of God must return to all schools, with the cane, Grammar Schools and cadets making a return too. Higher Fees will help cleanse out this riff-raff.

Time for a revolution.

But not the one that students have in mind. Report Recommend

the riot in the UK

 

Raj,

Could I point out that your statement 'The world doesn't owe them a living after all' is quite, well invalid if you are going to pick on any socialist philosophy.

After all apart from Capitalism in its whole form, all we have are alternatives-anarchism, socialism, communism the list goes on. The students see that fees are rising so the rich can 'Have more'. It is quite simple.Its happening here in NZ.Under fascist conservative fuckwit-full capitalist political 'Parties' we have nothing-the poor get even poorer, the rich get richer.Already stamps have gone up, education in Aotearoa has gone up and workers and everyday people are punished because of the misuse of power by the state/big corporates.

 

I meant here in Aotearoa.

I meant here in Aotearoa.

Right wing trolls are always

Right wing trolls are always the loudest when they're shitting themselves. Keep it up fuckers, you're making me moist.

Left wing / right wing

Raj is not 'right wing' - whatever that means.  He's saying that the Western world needs to confront its sense of entitlement, a sense of entitlement built on unsustainable public and private debt and a philosophy of transferring value value from those who are least able to afford it.  It's actually a pretty sensible and quite left wing philosophy.

What you're failing to realise, El Mutante, is that someone actually has to pay for government programmes.  You can put it off by borrowing.  But you can't borrow forever. You can print money, but then you're just taxing the poor.  You can try and tax the rich, but you will fail because the rich pay lawyers and accountants to avoid taxes.  The only fair option is to cut spending.

protests

 

Listen up.People are sick of capitalism.Its wearing them down thin.

Anarchy will be the way to stamp out capitalism.It (unfortunately involves violence).Its happening now.

The Real Lentil - name betrays you a little - you sound state supportive. Fuck you.

Fuck money, fuck free-evil-trade, fuck you bastards in the army, fuck you bitches, fuck you BIO-ruining lives-TECH, fuck you immigration law. FUCK YOU.

 

 

WAKE UP.

Lmao.

Fuck money? Money is anything that is a commonly accepted way of storing and transferring value. It doesn't matter whether money takes the form of cows, cigarettes, sea shells or paper notes. Money is trade. You can't fuck trade.

Fuck free trade? I bet you don't even know what it is.

You make me want to say: Fuck ignorance. Fuck indoctrination. And for Fuck's sake - WAKE UP!

the lack of money

the lack of money impoverishes us all in some way.  98% of all transactions is electronic not paper.  plenty of socially beneficial projects fails to come about because there is no profit to be made.  plenty of resources are misallocated in this way along with the human skills which could be put to better use in a less narrow economic system.  money is unnecessary in a collectivised structure.  barter on a large scale works.  you don't need money.

I agree with black tulip.  and BTW I think black tulip understands free trade just fine.  IMO u are the one who is ignorant, indoctrinated and asleep.  YOU WAKE UP.

lentil has plenty of opinions but no accepted political pov I can determine.  at least s/he seems to think for her/hisself however I think this individual would be wise to learn more about anarchism and social struggle before trying to argue with anarchists.  I don't know if that's realistic but would make the debates this person sparks more interesting I think.

Drunk rage Lentil

the lack of money impoverishes us all in some way.  98% of all transactions is electronic not paper...

Then you fundamentally misunderstand what money is. Money is any accepted means through which productive capacity is traded. It does not represent productive capacity itself. And money evolves because Barter does not, ever work efficiently on a large scale. So in any economic system, money is created so that trade can occur efficiently. Seashells in the pre-european pacific, cigarettes in prison, silver coins in Rome, or magnetic 1s and 0s on bank server's hard drive. It's all money.

I agree with black tulip.  and BTW I think black tulip understands free trade just fine.  IMO u are the one who is ignorant, indoctrinated and asleep.  YOU WAKE UP.

Fine. I challenge you or 'black tulip' to define 'free trade'.  And then go on to explain how it causes the negative outcomes you've been indoctrinated to believe that it causes.  I'll give you a big sloppy blowjob if you even come close to half an analysis.

I think this individual would be wise to learn more about anarchism and social struggle before trying to argue with anarchists. 

As passionate as you seem to be, you can't explain your own philosophy.  So instead, you abuse me.  What's interesting is that I actually agree, to a limited extent, with some of the arguments about the social inequalities arising from centralised authority.  But I bet you wouldn't have the first clue why that might be.  Because you don't actually know.  So before you accuse me of being ignorant, take honest stock of yourself.  You clearly have only a shallow and heavily biased understanding of how the world does and should work.

You're a Useful Idiot.

barter does work in large

barter does work in large scale.....

"...a bartering culture that helped millions of jobless people during the 2001-2 economic crisis in Argentina.

    “Look at the formal market as a high ladder, with very high steps unreachable for the majority of people. The market of bartering, in contrast, was visualised as an inclined plane with a smooth inclination in which every person could ascend according to his own rhythm and expectations,” wrote Carlos de Sanzo, one of the founders of the Global Bartering Network on the website about the history of bartering clubs in Argentina."

http://www.argentinaindependent.com/culture/undergroundba/no-hay-monedas...

there is insufficient money circulating in captalist economies to enable the work that needs to be done to occur.  if all the debt was to be repaid at once there would not be enough cash in circulation to cover it.  most new money is created by banks who loan money.  because banks can loan more than they hold in cash this means they create the loaned money out of thin air.  money is a fiction and it dominates our lives.  once the loan is repaid the money is removed from circulation including the extra interest which the bank keeps.  therefore the cash supply is constantly shrinking with the banks becoming richer and richer as a result.

the free movement of finance and goods is exploitative.  the rich countries became rich through protectionism:  subsidising domestic industries and tarriffs on imports to protect them from cut-throat foreign traders.  today small and/or poor countries are forced by the wealthy nations to drop tarriffs and barriers to trade in order to allow giant US, AUS, EUR, NZ corporations to dump cheap product on to their markets.  this destroys their local economies and traditional subsistence farming and creates a flow of labour from rural areas into seething cities where they can work on very low wages to make goods for the western corporations which then use these poor nations to produce their products.  this creates a scenario where there is a race to the bottom whereby desperately poor countries compete for short-term contracts with these corps by offering lower and lower taxes and wages and working conditions.

people cannot move freely around the globe as they once did but goods and finance can.

in NZ we have such a free market that anybody in the world can purchase land or businesses here.  48% of our assets are foreign owned. our cheap butter, dumped on poor economies, ruins traditional ways of life and causes immense suffering when farmers choose between starving or moving to disgusting conditions in teeming cities to work out their lives for a pittance.  we are as bad as america and europe in impoverishing the globe I think.

the way poor and/or small

the way poor and/or small nations are forced by the wealthy giants to drop wage and import controls is to offer loansand inducements in times of crisis which come attached to conditions which wreck havoc on their economies but make the wealthy nations richer.  in times of crisis the usual resistance to their neo-liberal policies is at a low ebb due to the shock and desperation inherent in difficult times and they cave to pressures to do long-term damage to their own economies in order to relieve the threat of an immediate economic collapse.  like the mafia shark who offers u a loan but arranges things so that your endeavours will suffer immeasurably in the long-run as a result with dealing with them in the first place.  power is immoral and will give up nothing without a demand.  force only gives in to force.  fight back against the imperial and capitalist stranglehold I say and define a new way of living and 'working' together.  BTW I am not indoctrinated thanks.

read naomi klein's no logo or the shock doctrine for an introduction to world 'free' trade and its vices.

there are no more endless

there are no more endless frontiers.  no more endless tracts of forest to cut down for a quick profit.  our economic system has it's roots at a time when in regard to resources and nature it was assumed there was infinite supply.  the system and the people living within it are backed up against an economic wall built of the economic system's own logic.

the world in which rich nations export their production to poor and desperate nations is one where the working class are increasingly imprisoned and unemployed and ever less necessary as workers within the rich economies.

over-production (nobody to sell all the goods to which are produced) has spawned greater and greater speculation on complex finance schemes.  neo-liberal capitalism thirsts for finance bubbles, growth markets, and finds them in the cracks of a dying planet: imaginitive new forms of finance markets (read: gambling) for stock markets to sink their greedy teeth into; by privitasing public assets (read: fire sales) and essentials to life like water, healthcare, welfare, security; by making it illegal for farmers to save seeds from one season to the next; by enforcing unfair free market rules which benefit wealthy nations; by patenting all forms of life; by building more and more private prisons to criminalise larger segments of populations so profit can be made out of both tax dollars and used as cheap labour for tight corps.  no longer is invading foreign lands the sole means of colonial expansion, of opening up access to new markets.  now the former imperial powers and those nations and interests which aspire to greater wealth and privilege ally with the US and force enire populations into submission with the briefcase and the threat of capital flight if they resist in times of economic desperation.  the world financial system is war with dollars and cents (or euros).  good business no longer just means polluting the land for future generations, it now includes amounting generations of debt for our great-grandchildren to figure out how to repay while banks across the planet are gifted trillion dollar bonuses with no strings attached.

are we to sacrifice everything to this material submissive way of life (arranged by our upside down economic system) or will we ally with the victims of capitalism everywhere to overthrow this unappointed and corrupt greed-crazy corp and govt 'leaders'.  together we can win but only if we fight them everywhere. 

if an alien race landed today and immediately begun poisoning the rivers, our bodies, our cities and began torturing and locking us up would u fight back?  why not now? because that is what is happening  (this paragraph was paraphrased from d.jensen)

the perfect slave believes they are free.

there are no more endless

there are no more endless frontiers.  no more endless tracts of forest to cut down for a quick profit.  our economic system has it's roots at a time when in regard to resources and nature it was assumed there was infinite supply.  the system and the people living within it are backed up against an economic wall built of the economic system's own logic.

the world in which rich nations export their production to poor and desperate nations is one where the working class are increasingly imprisoned and unemployed and ever less necessary as workers within the rich economies.

over-production (nobody to sell all the goods to which are produced) has spawned greater and greater speculation on complex finance schemes.  neo-liberal capitalism thirsts for finance bubbles, growth markets, and finds them in the cracks of a dying planet: imaginitive new forms of finance markets (read: gambling) for stock markets to sink their greedy teeth into; by privitasing public assets (read: fire sales) and essentials to life like water, healthcare, welfare, security; by making it illegal for farmers to save seeds from one season to the next; by enforcing unfair free market rules which benefit wealthy nations; by patenting all forms of life; by building more and more private prisons to criminalise larger segments of populations so profit can be made out of both tax dollars and used as cheap labour for tight corps.  no longer is invading foreign lands the sole means of colonial expansion, of opening up access to new markets.  now the former imperial powers and those nations and interests which aspire to greater wealth and privilege ally with the US and force enire populations into submission with the briefcase and the threat of capital flight if they resist in times of economic desperation.  the world financial system is war with dollars and cents (or euros).  good business no longer just means polluting the land for future generations, it now includes amounting generations of debt for our great-grandchildren to figure out how to repay while banks across the planet are gifted trillion dollar bonuses with no strings attached.

are we to sacrifice everything to this material submissive way of life (arranged by our upside down economic system) or will we ally with the victims of capitalism everywhere to overthrow this unappointed and corrupt greed-crazy corp and govt 'leaders'.  together we can win but only if we fight them everywhere. 

if an alien race landed today and immediately begun poisoning the rivers, our bodies, our cities and began torturing and locking us up would u fight back?  why not now? because that is what is happening  (this paragraph was paraphrased from d.jensen)

the perfect slave believes they are free.

This post has some

This post has some interesting point, which deserve analysis.

Bartering clubs

The first thing to note is that these so-called 'Bartering clubs' actually used a form of currency - 'creditos' - as a store of value and a medium of exchange. They weren't 'bartering' in the ordinary sense of the word. That is, they weren't swapping a cow for seventeen chickens, three cups of flour and a handjob. Rather, they were selling a cow for X creditos and using those X creditos to buy other things that they wanted. What they were really doing was setting up an alternative currency system. 

There is a good reason why this would happen in Argenina: Inflation. Money acts as a store of value. Inflation is the rate at which money loses its value. As such, high inflation makes people seek out alternative ways for people to store value ie, creditos, gold, housing etc. Inflation in Argentina has been volatile and particularly high at the point in time that we are talking about:

Argentina Inflation Consumer Price Index (CPI) and Producer Price Index (PPI) - Argentina Inflación Índice de Precios al Consumidor (IPC) y Índice de Precios Internos al Por Mayor (IPIM)

Alongside that, I take the point that these alternative currency systems encouraged greater economic participation by communities. Because these alternative currency systems had low level, localised participation this meant that there were shallow markets and low barriers to entry. This makes it easy for a person to participate in an economy by filling market gaps with products that would not be sustainable in a deeper market (although I agree that quality is not everything).

The amount of money circulating in our economy

You say that we don't have enough money circulating in our economies to pay for all the productive work that goes on. Then you go onto say that money is created out of thin air by banks. Both of these concepts are only partially true.

There is no such thing as 'insufficient money'. Money is just a means of exchange. As a medium of exchange its value is merely a function of 1. how much stuff there is to buy and 2. how much money there is to buy it. For any given amount of stuff, the more money there is the less each dollar can buy and the more valuable each dollar is - and vice versa.

Money is, in a sense, 'created' by banks on-lending money that is deposited with them. Yes, they do take a margin between the interest they pay and the interest they earn as gross profit (generally about 1% in NZ). But banks don't have absolute control over the amount of lending they engage it or the amount of deposits that they take. This is actually determined by the markets for saving and borrowing which, believe it or not, is actually controlled by people, not organisations (it's just that we don't realise it).

If the banks want to raise more money, they have to raise the interest rate that they offer to savers, which erodes their profit margin. Likewise, if they want to lend more, they have to lower interest rates to borrowers, again - eroding their profit margin. Amongst all this, their competing with other banks for the savings of savers and the borrowings of borrowers - trying to hit the sweet spot.

What you are completely wrong about is "therefore the cash supply is constantly shrinking with the banks becoming richer and richer as a result". Historically, money has been losing value. This means that although we produce more and more stuff every year, the supply of money is increasing at a greater rate than the increase in production of stuff, resulting in a reduction in the value of money and an increase in dollar value of stuff. Some charts to check out. 

NZ dollar inflation, consistently above 0% meaning the dollar is losing value year after year:

Average house prices increasing year after year:

The NZD price of gold, increasing year after year:

Gold Chart

Apologies about the differing timelines/scales, but you should be able to catch my drift. The NZD is losing value every year. This means that people who keep their money in currency are actually losing money year after year and the value of a person's debt actually gets less, in real terms, year after year. A bank's assets consist primarily of loans (other people's debt). Those loans are in dollar terms. Because the dollar is worth less year after year, these loans are worth less year after year.

Enough for part 1.

u either didn't read the

u either didn't read the article or u are dishonest coz the third paragraph says they didn't use any currency to begin with and barter was still catching on so u are therefore incorrect lentil.

"In Argentina, bartering became so popular that a simple exchange of items was no longer enough. Due to its growing popularity, the clubs began to implement ‘creditos’, a currency only used within the clubs. But a decade ago, few would have speculated that an idea centred on improving the environment and the economy would expand to such a socio-economic phenomenon."

banks traditionally loan out ten times the amount they hold in deposits.  if that isn't creating money out of thin air I don't know what is.

I'm not going to split hairs

I'm not going to split hairs with you. In order for the exchange of goods and services to work efficiently the bartering clubs had to implement a currency - creditos. At that point they stopped being bartering clubs and started being alternative currency clubs. The graph of Argentinian inflation demonstrates why people sought to move away from the Argentinian peso. They did this first by barter - yes. But quickly and naturally moved to an alternative currency.

Creditos can be lent out and borrowed, just like any money.  This would increase the supply of creditos in exactly the same way that bank lending increases money supply and 'creates money out of thin air'.  But what you're failing to grasp is that although lending increases the money supply, every time money is lent out, it creates an obligation to pay that money back.  So while lending might increase the money supply, that money is not free.

I agree with anonymouse

 

Hey yeah I agree with your statement.It seems The Real Lentil is 'picking' on me.I want to go into a corner and cry.

 

The simplicity of my argument is this-families have lost their brothers, dads etc thanks to Mining, an activity that exploits eco-systems and people.There are many alternatives to mining.

I agree with anonymouse

 

Hey yeah I agree with your statement.It seems The Real Lentil is 'picking' on me.I want to go into a corner and cry.

 

The simplicity of my argument is this-families have lost their brothers, dads etc thanks to Mining, an activity that exploits eco-systems and people.There are many alternatives to mining.

Sara,I'm sorry if I've

Sara,

I'm sorry if I've offended you or made you feel bad. I'm here to call out bullshit and combat extremist indoctrination by inciting debate. I'm not here to attack you as a person or try and upset you. If you feel that I've done that, then I apologise.

For what it's worth, you seem like a good person with a social conscience. I think that's important and I respect you for standing up for your principles. Ultimately, while we might disagree on the detail, all of us are whakapapa (o Aotearoa or further afield). This means that we will always have more in common than in difference.

I therefore propose this to be the context in which we continue our debate: not as adversaries, but as mutually inquiring minds.

With respect,

The Real Lentil.

standing together

 

Ae, I agree that differences should be put aside for strong debate but solidarity is called for where the destruction of capitalism is the common goal.

 

I also apologise for some words I said that have been almost quite radical, essentially thats who I am, but not in the sense I wish to...

Nevermind.All around me I see corruption, do I place a scarf over my eyes, or do I fight....

THEIR GOD DAMN LIES!!RISE UP ACTIVISTS!Wherever you are, in whatever job you have, do something, anything to help bring the system down.

 

 

'You can't reform profit

'You can't reform profit capitalism and inhumanity. Just kick it till it breaks.'

Angry Brigade, communiquè

 

dreaming of an insurrection now

Re:you cant reform profit

I agree, kick it till it breaks.

By far though anarchism is

By far though anarchism is the most workable path..:-)