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Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

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From July 11-13 the South Pacific Christian Anarchists (SPCA) will hold their third annual conference. The venue is Onuku Marae, Akaroa - an hour or so from Otautahi/Christchurch. The kaupapa for the Hui is examining how women lead in peace-making, justice-making, community-building and family. All welcome!

On behalf of the Komiti Whakahaere (organising committee) for the 2008 SPCA Hui/Conference, I encourage everyone to begin planning to be at this year's Hui.

When my husband Graham and friend Manu organised the first SPCA conference in Tauranga, July 2006, the conversations began between a group of committed and diverse people about what it means to authentically live out our faiths within our own communities and countries of the South Pacific.

With the joining of many more voices, stories and experiences at last year's gathering in Queensland, inspiration and momentum was increased for each of us to pursue peace and justice and community building in our own contexts.

Over the past year there have been several assaults on the right to voice dissent against the injustice, oppression, violence, war and poverty within our societies, as well as many encouraging moments and even miraculous victories.

This year we in Aotearoa invite you to come down to Te Wai Pounamu (the sparkling waters of the precious greenstone) AKA The South Island of New Zealand and spend 3 days with us in retreat, discussion, debate, creativity and story-telling and conversations alongside others who are equally interested in the journeys of justice, peace and faith.

We will congregate from 11-13 July at Onuku Marae, Akaroa - an hour or so through the Horomaka (Banks Peninsula) from Otautahi/Christchurch.

Onuku Marae is home to the hapu- of Nga-i Tarewa and Nga-ti Irake-hu. Irake-hu was the mother of many of the hapu- and pa- in the Horomaka area.

Transport will be provided from Otautahi - but hitchhikers and car poolers can organise rides through this website or by contacting one of the organisers.

The overarching kaupapa/theme for the 2008 SPCA Hui is examining how women lead in peace-making, justice-making, community-building and family. We hope to have several women speakers at the Hui, and to offer some discussion threads/workshops that examine issues that women are grappling with in anarchic community life.

The whole conference will be a space where all genders, experiences and contributions are valuable and worthwhile. So if you are not (currently, or ever likely to be) of the female gender, please do come along!

Download the Poster by clicking here.

Email me with your ideas and questions, as we are putting together the Hui over the next couple of months: cameronwhanau[at]paradise.net.nz

Ma te Atua e koutou te manaaki
Na,
Jo Cameron
(Tauranga, Aotearoa NZ)

Related

http://www.anz.jesusradicals.com/index.html

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0710/S00246.htm

Comments

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Any Christian activity associated with Anarchist is a confused statement. I cannot quote any women’s organisation towards peace when she at first has to purify her soul from material attachments motivating her, including the conquest to control men. When she has conquered herself and all her material constructions, she might then be ready to talk peace. And that’s probably another century if we are not all annihilated by a World War of her making...

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Faith and Anarchism? Women (or any person regardless of their gender) leading? Christianity and Anarchism?

Hope it's a good conference for those attending but the whole idea sounds pretty strange, sounds oxymoronic, much like anarcho-capitalism.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

File the above comment under misogyny plz.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Anarchist christians make it easier for both liberal christians and right wing christian fundamentalists to get their foot in through the door.

Society must not support these three versions of Christianity.

Re: 2008 South Pacific Christian Anarchist Conference - July, Ot

hello reposted your event on the events messageboards on 3monkeyz

http://www.3monkeyz.net/index_En.htm

Peace and anarchy
madhatterz

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Today some people claim that Christianity, rather than being an outdated superstition, can be a part of anarchism. They have started groups of “christian anarchists.” Have they any real claim to serious consideration? What is anarchism? Anarchism means “no power”, no violent power, no power over people not exercised by themselves, no State. A State is also an organisation of people, but of a group of people who have taken all the power in a society into their hands to the detriment of the rest of society. Understood in this way, is anarchism at all compatible with Christian teachings?

The anarchism developed by Michael Bakunin was clearly anti-Christian. God is a Lord, a master. How can a slave of God be free? Impossible, said Bakunin. That's why Bakunin urged anarchists to fight every religion, in particular Christendom. The “evil black book” should be burned: not even a museum reference copy is needed in the new free society.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

The thing people don't seem to realise is that many of the things that radical non-christians think is wrong with the church, is exactly the same thing that christian anarchists think is wrong with the church. For example, Ivan Illich. Do a wikipedia search. He is probably the best known of many.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Who the fuck are anarchists to tell anyone what they can and can't do or can or can't be?

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

This is really boring. I like christian anarchists, especially the ploughshares movement, who use direct action against war machines and serve serious jail time for disarming weapons etc. They have my full support and we need more christians like them

If a bunch of christians want to reject all authority except that of God, who I happen to think is an imaginary friend inside their heads, then thats pretty close to rejecting all authority if you ask me!

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

"No one can serve two masters, for either they will hate the one and love the other, or they will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money." - Jesus (Bar Joseph)

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Interesting that this xtian hui is "led" by wimin. They are classified in the very "Bible" they revere as "chattels" along with cattle. The pre-Abraham Yahweh was a god who expected human sacrifice, and the post-Abraham one who expected doves and animals to be slaughtered on the allegedly holy altar. And if we jump near the end of that "evil black book", we find St Paul speaking in favour of slavery. I wonder how these god-botherers will cope with these contradictions in their fave bedtime book?

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

I am tired of hearing the same cliched, unqualified, unresearched and unreferenced statements about Christianity, especially about Christian Anarchism.
Christian Anarchism is nothing new, and in fact has influenced secular anarchism.
Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Dorothy Day, Ammon Hennacy, ivan Illich and one of the favourites of Anarcho Primitivists; Jacques Ellul were Anarchists with a spiritual basis to thier political beliefs. (It must also be mentioned that the Christian side of there lives would be considered heretical within the empire of Evangelical Christendom.)

If we are to attack Christians with Anarchist leanings then we must also attack Starhawk (neo-pagan), Derrick Jensen (earth based spirituality), Taiake Alfred (Indigenous spirituality, Wasase), Ward Churchill (Indigenous spirituality), the Zapatista Movement (liberation theology), and possibly even Noam Chompsky (alludes to a spiritual component).

Open Your Minds before You Open Your Mouths.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

I’m not sure of ‘Christian slaves’ but scripture is metaphoric in stages of nature told in valid analogies transcended in metaphysics. Slave is bound by material attachments – the mind is corrupted and overwhelmed by feelings and senses, determines the individuals reality. Christ showed the way to free the individual from his/her subjective existent and freedom is exercising your own choices to follow God or to do according to your own will. You are never a slave in Christ but you are a slave of your own making. A lot of people although they claim to be Christians and church goers don’t have a clue about Christians... That’s why the likes of that TV Preacher makes millions of followers!

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

I am quite happy to critique any of the above anarchists, when they have beliefs not based in reality.. god especially flakes like starhawk..

That is not to say that i would totally trash these people, they have a lot of good things to say - but i cannot believe in fairy tales.

So what is wrong with critique? Why should anyone's spirituality be immune to criticism? Because spirituality is some kind of special thing that sits 'above' society, ideology and thought?

(Speaking as someone brought up methodist, later into all kinds of rediculous new age junk before realising it all just a big fairy tale to make me feel better about the universe)

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

you exist and that is more than enough. get over it. there's more than enough to keep us interested in life down here on earth. my spirituality is a belief in the potential good of humanity and it's ability to co-operate to overcome anything it chooses to.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

A spiritual awareness or idea is different than taking one mans teachings as above others. I think Christian Anarchists have many great things to say and many act in very good ways, and I personally have a great deal of respect for some individuals within this movement.
I would hate to personally criticise these people, and do not wish to, but I still do not feel that Christianity is fully compatable with Anarchism. I am curious to hear from a Christian Anarchist about what the differences are. What is your personal view and belief? What IS Christian Anarchy?

And how is the comment referred to as Mysoginystic that? I see the commenter questioning the validity of any person 'leading', especially within Anarchism - that 'without ruler'.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

who the fuck are all these anonymous experts on anarchism, and where are they when its time to actually do stuff?

Mr G

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Yo so aren't many of you just arguing over aetheism vs spirituality? If some poeple choose to believe in spiritual stuff who are you to question them? If they start oppressing you or others then sure, but if they're not then stop oppressing them... you mean bastards.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

11-13 July Is this a womens thing or can blokes come too?

I am a little jaded with some feminism but fully accept the leading and courageous role many women have taken in peace movements.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Hopefully the Christian Anarchists won't get sucked into all the navel gazing ineffectual banner waving self important lifestyle clique-ness carry on that seems to effect so many other anarchist 'activists'.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Since the "bible" is so filled with genocides (carried out on Yahweh's orders) and xenophobia, will Egyptians, Cypriots, and Jebusites (among other races that are derogated) be welcome to come to this hui, or will they be banned?

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

"11-13 July Is this a womens thing or can blokes come too?
I am a little jaded with some feminism but fully accept the leading and courageous role many women have taken in peace movements."

Thanks for your acceptance, I feel so much better now. Phew. :op

Seeing as the event was advertised by a man and does not say 'womyn only', one would assume men are welcome. Don't be so defensive.
If you're jaded with some feminism then maybe you've got some shit to sort out? Again don't be so defensive. Things will be better for everyone if you do. We're anarchists yeah? We've all got personal shit to sort out, be it sexism, racism, classism or whatever...

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

"Since the "bible" is so filled with genocides...."

It should be negated right?

The moment Pythagoras worked out his theorem for measuring the sides of right angle triangle, yanno, the....In any right triangle, the area of the square whose side is the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the areas of the squares whose sides are the two legs...he sacrificed 200 bulls to Jupiter. Not only was he an animal abuser, but also a religious nut, so by applying the formula of negation here, lets all go back to counting on our fingers, because much of math which we rely on today was discovered by religious nuts whose religions are the blame for the deaths of millions of people.

Speaking of math, computers based on binary...shouldn't be used by an anarchist because binary was discovered by Pingala who was a pagan hindu. At least he didn't hurt cows so thats one thing going for him in terms of animal rights, but we should negate the dude lock stock and two smoking barrels for worshipping gods and participating in a religion that resulted in the deaths of millions of people.

Guy Fawkes...dammit, my hero, was a member of the....Roman Catholic revolutionaries. Crappo!

Goldman...god forbid we touch the chosen one...an orthodox Jew, but worse, attempted to fund direct actions by prostitution....took a horse whip to a seminar and whipped the speaker.

My goodness, certainly a case for the big N-n-n-n-egation?

Either that or just get over ourselves and learn to pick out the good bits and say fuck the rest.

all faith and superstition should be criticised

"If some poeple choose to believe in spiritual stuff who are you to question them?"

Why shouldn't we? Faith has been shielded from criticism for far too long. It's good to see all the criticism here.

These groups, like the catholic workers, make me sick in the stomach. They think they are doing gods work. They are so deluded.

There will be no anarchy while faith and religion remain. You don't have to be part of organised religion to believe in the imaginary sky daddy. While people are teaching their children to believe in things uncritically, without any evidence whatsoever, extremists will arise. Religious moderates create a space where faith is considered the norm, considered good. It's only natural that some people will take it a step further because they think they have god on their side.

It saddens me somewhat that people are so deluded and gullible that they think there is any credibility to the idea of life after death, or that jesus walked on water, or that they have a spirit watching over them, or whatever.

Wake up to yourself you fools.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

What about Maori anarchists, who may also believe in a raft of Maori Gods.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

The hui is definitely open to all who wish to attend, no matter what gender they choose to, or choose not to identify with.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Personally I'm sick to hell of atheist fundamentalists. Your fairy tales about a mechanistic universe where every event is determined by the collision of elementary particles has been debunked by the very scientific method you claim to champion. Outside of what has been empirically proven by that method (very little in the greater scheme of things), EVERYTHING else is theory. There is no scientific proof of determinism and no scientific disproof of many theories of God(s).

Chance is the God of atheists and they demand christians (and others) worship their God too, while hypocritically blaming the historical results of such fundamentalism on everyone but themselves. How many indigenous people have been wiped out, how many ecosystems destroyed, in the name of secular progress? You too have blood on your hands.

Finally, by placing atheist anarchism above christian anarchism you erect a hierarchy - this is better/ higher/ more true than that - isn't anarchism against hierarchy? Actually anarchism is against pathological hierarchy, against authority which cannot justify itself - in the matter of boots, say Bakunin, I defer to the authority of the bootmaker. Without natural hierarchy, which Ken Wilbur calls holarchy, molecules cannot be higher than atoms and the fabric of the universe as we know it collapses. The collapse of holarchies brings about a new set of problems caused by pathalogical hetarchy (non-hierarchy) but that's another story...

Strypey

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

I dont mind the christian anarchists, as long as they dont get too touchy feely about my thoughts concerning how god and all his hierachial hords of superior beings can go eat the peanuts in my shet.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

"There will be no anarchy while faith and religion remain."

Given about 95 percent of the people of the world have faith and religion and show no sign of giving it up, that statement would seem to make anarchy an impossibility for the next couple of hunderd years.

As an atheist anarchist, I'm encouraged and cheered to see the Christian anarchists, the Sufi anarchists and the Buddhist anarchists and allthe other anarchists at work.

Thank God for them! :)

Cheers Sam

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

"There will be no anarchy while faith and religion remain."

Given about 95 percent of the people of the world have faith and religion and show no sign of giving it up, that statement would seem to make anarchy an impossibility for the next couple of hunderd years.

As an atheist anarchist, I'm encouraged and cheered to see the Christian anarchists, the Sufi anarchists and the Buddhist anarchists and allthe other anarchists at work.

Thank God for them! :)

Cheers Sam

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

What a hilarious thread. Who would have thought anarchists could be so precious about who and can't be an anarchist?

Good thought provoking comments from Strypey about fundamentalist atheism- nicely put.

Stupidest comment: "Faith has been shielded from criticism for far too long." hilarious.

Go hard all you Christian anarchists.

Duncan

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Might be worth judging by deeds rather than words and Catholic Workers have done quite a bit of good on that ledger. Not sure if they class themselves as Anachist though.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Yo- I think its choice when any anarchists look to get organised! Some of the Catholic Workers have done some really great stuff and I fully support that-and some of them that I have meet do consider themselves anarchist. Hope the conference goes well I would like to try and make some of it

dan rae

Debunking Strypey

"Personally I'm sick to hell of atheist fundamentalists. "

Tell me, what are the fundamentals of atheism? Atheism is very simple - a non-belief in dieties. There is no other dogma or doctrine that defines an atheist.

"Your fairy tales about a mechanistic universe where every event is determined by the collision of elementary particles has been debunked by the very scientific method you claim to champion."

What are you referring to? What scientific theories contradict the idea that we live in a material (matter/energy) universe?

"Outside of what has been empirically proven by that method (very little in the greater scheme of things), EVERYTHING else is theory. There is no scientific proof of determinism and no scientific disproof of many theories of God(s)."

Do you know what a scientific theory is? It's a model that is supported by evidence. Eg the theory of gravity, the theory of evolution. The more supported a theory is, the more it is considered to be closer to the truth about the universe.

As for disproving god. It's up to the person who makes the positive claim to come up with the evidence for that claim. Can you disprove that the tooth fairy exists? disprove that the flying spaghetti monster exists? disprove that there is a china teapot in orbit around Pluto. It's ridiculous. There is an infinite amount of ideas that cannot be disproved. Just because something is disproved does not make it automatically proven. It doesn't that there is a 50% chance that it's true. If you claim something is real, come up with the evidence.

"Chance is the God of atheists and they demand christians (and others) worship their God too, while hypocritically blaming the historical results of such fundamentalism on everyone but themselves. How many indigenous people have been wiped out, how many ecosystems destroyed, in the name of secular progress? You too have blood on your hands."

And you blame this on peoples non-belief in god? That's a total non-sequiter. Technological progress has been happening long before atheism was common.

Also, secularism is good for believers and non-believers alike. If you don't want a secular society, it means the potential for one religion/belief system to dominate can rise and wipe out all others.

"Finally, by placing atheist anarchism above christian anarchism you erect a hierarchy - this is better/ higher/ more true than that - isn't anarchism against hierarchy? Actually anarchism is against pathological hierarchy, against authority which cannot justify itself - in the matter of boots, say Bakunin, I defer to the authority of the bootmaker. Without natural hierarchy, which Ken Wilbur calls holarchy, molecules cannot be higher than atoms and the fabric of the universe as we know it collapses. The collapse of holarchies brings about a new set of problems caused by pathalogical hetarchy (non-hierarchy) but that's another story..."

funny you reference atoms and molecules after previously poo-pooing science.

Maori Gods

"What about Maori anarchists, who may also believe in a raft of "

The belief in any deity is irrational, indigenous ones included. Religion is humanities first attempt at explaining the universe. It's out of date now. It just takes a little longer for the entrenched belief systems to be abandoned.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

why is there a separate xtian anarchist conference? why not just have a workshop at the anarchist one? why be separate or appear to be?

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

I've been toying with the concept of mauri (essence of life in all things) & the 'recent' scientific discovery of molecula vibrations.

That movement of the molecules is an essential 'life' force for matter to exist can be worked into mauri to a greater or lesser degree.

My thought being that to some extent 'science' is catching up with maori beliefs.

Whos knowledge is right?

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Seems it's not that recent a discovery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_vibration

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

"The belief in any deity is irrational..."

The idea of irrational is out of date too.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

"Whos knowledge is right?"

The ones whose knowledge bank does not lead to mindsets that think its ok to fuck this earth over. The rest can go get fucked whether they are supposed to be more modern or not.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

I think the most important aspect of christian anarchism (I am atheist so I don't care about that stuff) is that it might be a good in-road to introducing middle new zealand to ideas of anarchism.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

are pagan's welcome?

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Good to see straw-man assumptions are alive and well ;P

"Tell me, what are the fundamentals of atheism? Atheism is very simple - a non-belief in dieties. There is no other dogma or doctrine that defines an atheist."

I am using fundamentalism is the sense of a belief that one's set of metaphysical beliefs (whether in God or Gods or the reduction of all phenomena to the collision of elementary particles) is inherently superior to everyone else's, and that all other metaphysical views should disappear and be replaced by the 'right' one - ie one's own.

If you look through many of the anti-christian comments on this thread, you will see many examples of atheist fundamentalism.

"What are you referring to? What scientific theories contradict the idea that we live in a material (matter/energy) universe?"

Nice wriggling, but that wasn't my claim. Look again. I wasn't rejecting the idea that the universe contains matter, rather the claim that all phenomena can be reduced to the collisions of elementary particles. This kind of reductionism is contradicted by many scientific discoveries.

Let's begin with Einstein and relativity, which posits that all matter is merely a form of energy, and offers a formula for calculating how much energy is contained in a given parcel of matter. Following this came the discoveries of quantum mechanics, such as the fact that particles are sometimes waves and not particles, meaning that atoms and molecules only collapse into one of their various possible states when they are observed at a given point in time. The upshot of this is that the behaviours of particles are not determined only by their own properties, but by emergent properties like consciousness that transcend and include them.

"Do you know what a scientific theory is? It's a model that is supported by evidence."

No, actually a theory is an *interpretation* of an accumulated body of evidence. As such, a rationalist theory is no more inherently scientific than a non-rationalist theory. The belief that a rationalist theory is more inherently scientific is another example of atheist fundamentalism.

Do you know what a paradigm shift is? That's when enough evidence accumulates that dominant theories (like the particle determinism described above) must be abandoned, despite all the evidence that seems to support them. God or spirit was included as part of the western scientific paradigm, going right back to Aristotle and further. Following the enlightenment, the doctrine of atomism (reduction to particles as described above) became the dominant paradigm. This paradigm is now shifting. As you fundo atheists are always telling spiritual believers, get with the times!

"The more supported a theory is, the more it is considered to be closer to the truth about the universe."

The more popular a theory is, the more it is believed to be the truth - ie the more people have faith in its inherent true-ness. This applies as much to religious theories about God as it does to atheist theories about particles.

"There is an infinite amount of ideas that cannot be disproved. Just because something is disproved does not make it automatically proven."

Again, you are boxing shadows. Faith, by its very nature, is invested where there is not enough evidence on the surface to know for certain whether something is true. Atheists mock spiritual believers as if they are holding on to 'outdated concepts' ie concepts that have been debunked. In fact the opposite is true. As you say, the existence of God cannot be empirically disproven, whereas many of the deterministic notions that the atheists hold up as unassailable truths *have* been empirically disproven.

"And you blame this on peoples non-belief in god? That's a total non-sequiter."

Only as much as blaming the historical behaviour of empires that clothe themselves in religious trappings (eg Catholic Church) on all contemporary believers in the essence of that religion.

"funny you reference atoms and molecules after previously poo-pooing science."

Again with the wriggling. I didn't poo-poo science. I poo-poo atheism because the beliefs of the most arrogant and outspoken atheists do not stand up to scientific enquiry. Characterising a criticism of determinism as anti-science is yet another textbook example of atheist fundamentalism.

Thanks for the mental gymnastics,
Strypes

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

"why is there a separate xtian anarchist conference? why not just have a workshop at the anarchist one? why be separate or appear to be?"

I think this thread is evidence of why - perhaps - 'Christian Anarchists' may want/need a separate conference!

Some of the comments on here are fucking depressing.

One culture I have been brought up with could be called a 'Christian' culture, and I have gained incredible strength from being able to explore my political views in the context of my evolving spiritual beliefs.

If the only examples of "anarchists" in my world were some of the anonymous commentors on this thread, I would find anarchism repugnant - at least in practice. I think it is a powerful and helpful thing that spiritual people from different traditions find connection with anarchist principles.

Peace,

Marissa

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

BTW despite being more of a transhumanist than a christian, I am very interested in the way people's metaphysical worldviews inform their political theory and practice. I will try and get down for the conference and see if I can drag some of the christians I know along.

Strypey

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

"There is no other dogma or doctrine that defines an atheist."

Nor a purest believer in a god. But both atheists and god believers have added to their belief a system of knowledge, and explanation of the formation of the world, and where the human fits into the equation.

For most of the god believer its various tracts of religion and cultural interpretation, for many atheists its evolution ...i.e. the origin of the species....as determined by a phenomena called science.

"Do you know what a scientific theory is? It's a model that is supported by evidence. Eg the theory of gravity.....truth about the universe."

Which theory. Newtons inverse square law? the one still taught in schools? Didn't Einsteins theory of general relativity pretty much outdate Newtons? Then quantum gravity pretty much topped general relativity, then came string theory, and the latest is apparently master string theory.

Either one takes a level of belief in order to accept their very premise. Example: The scientific odds of even one singular left sided amino acid forming by chance is something like 10 to the power of 123. I'm not even going to bother expanding that out for the sake of space, but that is some humongous odds.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

"There is no other dogma or doctrine that defines an atheist."

"Nor a purest believer in a god. But both atheists and god believers have added to their belief a system of knowledge, and explanation of the formation of the world, and where the human fits into the equation."

A purist god believer? And what exactly is that? Define the god a purist god believer beleives in. Specific atheists have specific things they believe, but the atheism itself is the non-belief in god.

"For most of the god believer its various tracts of religion and cultural interpretation, for many atheists its evolution ...i.e. the origin of the species....as determined by a phenomena called science."

There are theists that accept evolution too. Acceptance of evolution does not define one as an atheist.

"Do you know what a scientific theory is? It's a model that is supported by evidence. Eg the theory of gravity.....truth about the universe."

"Which theory. Newtons inverse square law? the one still taught in schools? Didn't Einsteins theory of general relativity pretty much outdate Newtons? Then quantum gravity pretty much topped general relativity, then came string theory, and the latest is apparently master string theory."

Newtons laws are still used to this day. Within certain contexts they become inaccurate and Einsteins laws must be used.

"Either one takes a level of belief in order to accept their very premise. Example: The scientific odds of even one singular left sided amino acid forming by chance is something like 10 to the power of 123. I'm not even going to bother expanding that out for the sake of space, but that is some humongous odds."

No. The two are not equivalent. With science you have evidence. Tested rigorously by the world scientific community. It is not a 'belief' or 'faith'. God on the other hand has no evidence and is believed purely on faith.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

The way I look at things christians are almost atheists, after all, they only believe in one more god than me.

Y.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

God doesn't believe in atheists, so they don't exist

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

"God doesn't believe in atheists, so they don't exist"

The reminds me of the new age type cults that believe if everyone believes the wall isn't there, then they can all walk through the wall.

People who believe they can manipulate the world by only thinking of something.

People thinking they can levitate, disappear.

It's a scary thing to see people who are obsessed with the unverified and absurd.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

Did you have your sense of humour surgically removed at birth? That quote was hilarious! Reminds me of a graffito I saw. Someone had sprayed:
"God is dead" - Nietzsche

Under which, someone else had sprayed:
"Nietsche is dead" - God

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

What I am most annoyed about are the people who deny the existence of the Great Spaghetti Monster. I consider myself to be a Fundamentalist Pastafarian as I worship the G.S.M. (not to be confused with M.S.G.) by consuming macaroni, spaghetti, lasagna and other 'foods of the gods' in a religious fashion.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

"Newtons laws are still used to this day. Within certain contexts they become inaccurate and Einsteins laws must be used."

Yet both have been superceded and/or discredited. They are still in use today due to flat earthism which is what science is essentially....the belief in a scientific flat earth until it is finally undeniably exposed.

"No. The two are not equivalent. With science you have evidence. Tested rigorously by the world scientific community. It is not a 'belief' or 'faith'."

With theories that depend on chance with odds close to techinical infinity (i.e. the chance that all the factors involved in this huge dominos fall in the right place and at the right time), that does take a level of belief, if you cant see it then you are just as guilty of dogma as any other religious nuts are.

ps BECAUSE of the excessive level of chance involved in the proposition that an amino forming in the oceans of the earth via some form of magnetic circular dichroistic exciting of atoms and ions in a molecule, evolution theorists have come up with a new flat earth theory...the aminos didnt form here, they formed somewhere else and arrived here in the ice trail of a comet or in a meteorite, thus shifting the origin of the amino to another planet...but not solving the original problem with their theory of the origin of 'life'.

They will probably find that the amino acids they thought they discovered in the meteorites are in fact from earth through, through contamination from earths atmosphere. See they probably even know that too yet you can see how science works when data is ambiguous. They continue to create human belief by continued proposition of [the phenomena of the belief in something called scientific] more supposed fact.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

a challenge. All of you who think science is somehow 'flat earthism', or have problems with evolution, post your thoughts on the following website:
http://www.rationalresponders.com/

There you will find a myriad of scientists and atheists that will debunk the fallacies you are using. That's if you are interested in expanding your knowledge of such things.

Re: Upcoming Christian Anarchist Conference

If you are a vegan can you stil lbreastfeed your baby?